Friday, April 16, 2010

Promoting freedom of speech!

The long-term cost of indifference

(Contributed by Patrick X, a faithful and active participant on the STAR blog. Views expressed are solely that of the author and published by STAR to promote free speech)

The happenings during the SCCI's AGM has enraged many Seychellois as they feel helpless after a so-called 'Indian invasion' led by a doctor who arrived in Seychelles wearing flip-flops, but now ventures in expensive Armani suits and wears the best perfumes. Ramadoss' arrogance is no different from the arrogance of any Indian who has gained wealth in relatively short time and by far surpassed the very people of his new country. This story is neither new or unique by a thousand miles, let alone a thousand meters.

Culture's like that of the Indian breed arrogance as it is a powerful weapon and there is belief that one's wealth. gained or born with, is the reincarnation of the good one did in a previous life. On the other hand, Ramadoss and the likes of him look down on labourers, even those from his motherland India, as they are labourers due to their previous lives. I cannot therefore blame Ramadoss for being a swollen arrogant so-and-so as he simply does not know better and it is very unlikely that his ego will get any smaller as he rises even further up.

We can ask ourselves how Ramadoss has managed to achieve his status in so short time and there is no doubt that he has had a great deal of help from his good friend and patient France Albert Rene, our previous dictator and to many the biggest traitor, thief and murderer that has ever walked on our soil. Ramadoss arrived at the right time and having a constant glaze of '$$$' in his eyes bare visible behind those thick glasses, stuck between a pair of cheeks the size of a hippo's, Rene took him under his wing and flew up high before perching on the top of the Seychellois tree of society.

But is that the only thing that has helped Ramadoss reach the top? It is naturally convenient to blame the SPPF/PL, but if one thinks about the rise of Ramadoss I believe we will find that he has been greatly helped by a majority of the Seychellois people in more than one ways:

The Seychellois are indeed unique in many ways and Seychellois, like their country, are unique by a thousand miles. We are hospitable, joyful, uniquely gossipers and foremost uniquely indifferent and iit is that very indifference that have kept us in the grip of the SPPF/PL for over 3 decades. Our problem is that we take too much shit to put it mildly, We love to complain, we love to argue, but we hate to fight or rather simply don't know how to fight in an efficient way.

Whenever the Seychellois meet a major challenge be it a corrupt political system, high prices or even the infamous 'white flies' that ravaged domestic crops some years ago we do nothing but shrug our shoulders and say 'be ou kapab lager ek sa?' and resign in indifference. The perfect example of that was during the SCCI's AGM when the offended started to leave the meeting in protest and disgust giving Ramadoss the best opportunity to bully his way to victory. Instead of allying against him and giving him hell they instead threaten to start 'their own' association giving Ramadoss even more petrol to throw on the fire, not least the PL an even better opportunity to say that they are 'anti-Indian' or 'xenophobic'. What they should have done instead is cause so much mayhem that the entire process would have had to be re-scheduled where clear rules for voting would have been established. Instead they blame Ramadoss for allying himself with every Indian shop owner there is. Of course he bloody would. That is something that should have been foreseen a thousand miles away.

Not enough with that, we Seychellois also support Ramadoss economically in several ways, especially through 'his' many business ventures, especially his casinos where a good part of the population spend a high percentage of their earnings or pension there. Stand outside any casino prior to opening time and you will see a line of Seychellois, yes Fabrikes, as Indians know better than to spend their hard earned cash on gambling. We know we are losing money, whilst a filling the pockets of a filthy rich arrogant sod, nevertheless we still put our coins in that slot and activate the one armed bandit hoping for the big win. That fact that a win is made from others' losses doesn't seem to bother us. Indifference at its best.

Our government is so corrupt that corruption has reached just about every level of our little society, but nobody seems to care. There is corruption even in our hospitals, our morgue employees are corrupt as they offer 'special deals' to the families of the deceased who have been put in the refrigerator whilst waiting for relatives from abroad to attend their funeral. Corruption, but it's ok as long as we are saving some Rupees. The fact that we are encouraging makes no difference. Indifference.

We blame our top officials for being corrupt, for stealing money, abusing funds, but nevertheless we cease to realize our own indifference as we shrug our shoulders and say 'be ou kapab lager ek sa' as we accept a handful of notes in form of a bribe. Ramadoss can do as he pleases, as can his supporters in the PL and they can do so because of our indifference. Now Ramadoss arrogance is the talk of Seychelles, but yet tomorrow morning, the day after and the proceeding days after that his casinos will be full of Seychellois willing to donate parts of their salaries and/or pension to no other than Ramadoss. Be ou kapap lager ek sa?

As long as we keep on being indifferent we will be walked over by people like Rene, Ramadoss and others of their type. To mention a few are people like Radovan Krejcir, Ricci, Kashoogi and others who are allowed to do as they please because we let them do so. Even our leader of the so-called opposition won't statute an example by not showing indifference as he has grossly failed Seychelles by for instance employing Indians to do his construction work rather than Seychellois. And he expects votes? Even when given the chance to talk to the IMF he showed gross indifference by not bothering to meet up and represent the people who gave him their trust.

I Patrick X therefore challenge the Seychellois people to start showing that they care about their country and by doing so I encourage every single Seychellois to kick Ramadoss where is hurts most. I'm not talking about his butt(nothing can penetrate that amount of blubber), I'm talking about his wallet. If every Seychellois boycotts every single business that is owned by Ramadoss and his clique it will hurt him where he is most vulnerable: namely his wallet.

I also encourage all my countrymen to boycott any business of any person who shows the same arrogance as Ramadoss. This includes businesses owned by corrupt officials, people who do not employ Seychellois or employ a majority of Seychellois(hotels, guest houses and or any other businesses where there is a foreigner majority). By showing your disgust to that type arrogance you are supporting Seychellois owned businesses and or foreign owned businesses who actually help Seychelles by employing Seychellois, hence contributing to our economy. I don't expect the PL government to do anything about it by for example imposing laws to force equilibrium in workforce between Seychellois and foreigners so we may as well impose it ourselves.

It's very simple: If your local malbar doesn't employ a single Seychellois, boycott him. If your local hotel/bar employs more expats than Seychellois, boycott it. If your builder employs more expats than Seychellois, find another. You may think it's more expensive, but I can assure you that your money will do the country more good if paid to a local contractor rather than a foreign owned one, not to mention the patriotism and example you will be showing. Foreign contractors are in the dangerous position of getting monopoly in Seychelles and sooner or later there won't be a single Seychellois who can build the beautiful stone walls like 'La Flit' build in his time. We are facing a construction boom in the years to come and we won't make a single rupee out of it due to our indifference. Oh yes, and if a shop in Victoria doesn't employ Seychellois then it too deserves to be boycotted.

Seychellois, it is time to show that we care for our country and what goes on in it, this in addition to showing that we won't take anymore crap from anyone who comes from outside to tell us what to do. Seychelles is for the Seychellois and those who care for the Seychellois and their well being. I'm not asking you to start any violence against foreigners, but I am asking you to boycott foreigners who are here only to help themselves and not the country they live in. If you can't beat them, boycott them. However, I do ask and expect you all to show respect to those who do respect us be they Russian, Czech Chinese, Arab or Indian. This is not an encouragement to racism, but pure patriotism.

Indifference is cheap in the short term, but the long-term costs can really put you in ruin. As I read on a bumper sticker in Alaska once: "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance".

Patrick X

80 comments:

Anonymous said...

Great job Pat,it is a well-thought article.Keep it up.

Jeanne D'Arc

Anonymous said...

Patrick is it really necessary to attack a person's physique to make a point. Frankly this really puts me off and i consider atatcks on physical traits of anyone else despicable and does not reflect well on the author.

Vox

Anonymous said...

sorry, apart from that great article and thoughts. I make it a point to never ever enter a business/shop of Ramadoss. I have never set foot in his Casinos (not even for a drink), but i gather many if not the majority of it made of Opposition supporters and old people go and give their money to Ramadoss and by extension the SPPF/PL on a daily basis. Seychelles must be the only place in the world where casino is not taxed!

Vox

Anonymous said...

Because of your second paragraph, extending the behaviour of an individal to a race, I must re-quote this caution below.

[And Brothers Gill you cannot distance yourselves from Patricks view, you actively solicited that he works together with you and write for your blog because you like what he says.]

I hope you see reflections in the quote below, which might temper your convictions:

This is the first demand we must raise and do [reversal of 3.5 decades of history]: that our people be set free, that these chains be burst asunder, that Sesel be once again captain of her soul and master of her destinies, together with all those who want to join Sesel. (Applause)


And the fulfillment of this first demand will then open up the way for all the other reforms. And here is one thing that perhaps distinguishes us from you [Collaborators] as far as our programme is concerned, although it is very much in the spirit of things: our attitude to the Malbar/Fabrike problem.


For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to be solved by small concessions. For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Malbar/Fabrike spirit can ever really be eradicated.

Don't be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus. Don't think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis. This Malbar/Fabrike contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Malbar/Fabrike, has been banished from our midst. (Applause)


Speech delivered by Hitler in Salzburg, 7 or 8 August 1920. (NSDAP meeting)

The quotation is from a shorthand transcript, replacing Germany with Sesel, and Jew with Malbar/Fabrike

Source: D Irving, The War Path: Hitler's Germany 1933-1939.

Mark. J

Anonymous said...

I reply to Vox-

I agree with Vox, personal attacks do not help us. We need to stick to the issues.

Patrick X is hurt deeply by Ramadoss action, he is offended, and has given an emotional response.

However, we must not divert from the true issues in spite of the emotional response. As Patrick once said, Rasinism is dynamite and must not be handled by just anyone.

We must not promote hate, we must promote what is Seselwa Rasin interests.

Opponents will look for any hole to dig it deep enough for a final tomb for Seselwa Rasin ideology, because they know, when we say "Sesel Pou Seselwa", it does not mean Seychelles is for Ramadoss.

As Vox, I have been boycotting Ramadoss Casino's and shops, and juice for years.

Christopher Gill

Anonymous said...

I like your comment Christopher, and your explanation that you should not promote hate.

Mark J.

Anonymous said...

Reply to Mark-

There you go again, imputing that the Seselwa Rasin ideology is race based similar to Hitler Movement in 1920's.

Have you read our CREED? Obviously you have not. I suggest in the interest of a healthy debate, you read our CREED.

Patrick X is not a proxy for myself or my Brother. Patrick X has been a great opponent on this Blog for many months. However, are ardent supporters of Free Speech, and will defend Patrick X's right to say what he likes, till the death, just as I will defend your right to say what you like to the death. But please, say things in context, so I do not have to kill myself responding to you day and night over the same issue which you seem mentally fixated to.

I am Malabar Mark if you will, just as I am French, and as I am Black African, as I am so to Chinese.

Seselwa Rasin Ideology makes no distinction according to race. The distinction is based on who is an indengenous Seselwa, born on Independence day, June 29th, 1976.

I will not encourage STAR to censor Patrick X because you have not read our CREED.

On one facebook, I have been blocked because the person could not handle the debate. But yet, she continues to do solo boxing by herself, in her own world, without a touch of reality to what she says. That is madness, and should not be condoned by anyone, including yourself.

I withhold the name because I feel sorry for SNP.

Christopher Gill

Anonymous said...

I just wish Christopher and his phoneys would stop saying that Seychellois are "indigenous" inhabitants of Seychelles. Please check the History of Seychelles you fool.

Anonymous said...

Let me say upfront, I don't like the way this individual of Indian origin has used his success, and the fear and weaknesses in the Indian-origin community to create even more factional politics in Seychelles.

And were you not to be waving ras(in)ist banners at them, I am sure you would find most Seychellois of Indian origins also agree with you.

In some ways I imagine he is operating a lot like you guys!

So when I caution against radicalism, I caution against both of you.

You do not resolve disputes, or produce long term stabiltiy, by balancing each other away from the center ground. Africa is littered with examples of this.

This is why I think, Christopher, by making your cause a single-issue campaign, you are locked into putting out contradictory messages in terms of Values.

Democracy is about evolution, not revolution.

Mark J

Anonymous said...

Pa pa pa pa pa ye ye Patrick X..

I'm sorry to say it but why the vilification of an Individual?

Has that person been the subject of any covert operations.. that he is undermining, plotting and planning to overthrow the Government of JAM?. You all mentain that Ramadoss is about the Law....can someone point out what Law has Ramadoss violated?.

X says how corrupt our Government is and yet the Ex Prime Minister of Ireland Doctor Fitzerald had this to say on Nation today..."the public administration and political are competent and dedicated people."

Do we listen to a bunch of Racist embeciles/Losers or do we listen to what people like Professor Dillon are telling and assuring us?.

In regards to Ramadoss, he has outsmarted an Elitist by the name of D'offay and as a result, vilification is the norm rather than the exception. As far as this writer is concerned, Patrick X can go and get stuffed. TIKLO

Anonymous said...

Please Christopher! Do you think I am really that petty and shallow to waste my time and engage you in discussion without reading the Creed?

I don't agree with it on a number of issues, and am happy to write a blog article for you on it.

But that is irrelevant to my words of caution on what you are inadvertently doing, not what you are saying!

You are right, your ideology is dynamite and should be handled carefully, otherwise Jeanne D'Arc will light her torch and go burning witches (excuse the irony). So why would you allow a person in an emotional state to handle dynamite on this blog? Free speech not withstanding.

Here is Patricks particulary damaging text re-printed as you did not bother to check the paragraph I specifically referred to:

[His] arrogance is no different from the arrogance of any Indian who has gained wealth in relatively short time and by far surpassed the very people of his new country. This story is neither new or unique by a thousand miles, let alone a thousand meters.

Culture's like that of the Indian breed arrogance as it is a powerful weapon and there is belief that one's wealth...

Now you cannot tell me that this is not the start of a de-humanising of a section of people based on the behaviour of an individual as an example!

Anonymous said...

Mark J. Seychellois are in its majority,mostly a blend of Europeans and Africans ,so comparing Seychellois to German nazis or calling us Racists doesn't hold waters.

Mark J., you and your SPPF commarades are trying to use Racism as a political grimmick in an attempt to defence SPPF illegal deeds.It wouldn't work, and thanks god Seychellois are educated and won't let SPPF ram such propagandas down their throats.

After thirty-three years of SPPF the Nation has learnt to know SPPF from A to Z and are not at all shaken by SPPF lies,they have become tacit to us.

When we say,for instance, those who obtained our passports illegally must face the consequences, there is nothing Rascist in it.We want our rules-of-law to be respected like in any other countries.

Laws of a country are implemented not for decoration or for the sake of implementing laws but to be abided by all.

Our laws on immigrantions,foreigners workers,land leasing,construction laws,naturalization to name a few have all been disrespected and abused both by SPPF and those foreigners who followed these illegal procedures concocted by SPPF for this purpose.They are in one way or another complice of those SPPF illicite acts.

So,what we saying is that such practices could and would not be tolerated any longer.

We will need to fix it sooner than later else the problems will get worse and we will lost total control over it and our Nation doesn't deserve such faith.

Jeanne D'arc

Anonymous said...

Jeanne D'Arc, i will meet you half way and say i agree partly with your comments.

However i wish to point out that many who now cheers Sesel pour Seselwa are accomplices with selling Seychelles to foreignes.

Who are the lawyers/scouts who have helped SIVA, Khaliffa, the Russians of B Vallon, the other arabs to buy land even to extent of putting in place nominee owners? Where were their sense of patritism/ethics then.

Some weeks ago, Marie Louise Potter cited the names of many people who have sold land to SIVA. The purpose was to embarass the Opposition probably, but the fact remains that almost all if not all are well known Opposition sympathisers. Where was Sesel pour Seselwa slogan then?

The govt is wrong to sell State Land to foreigners like it did to Khaliffa, but Seselwa rasin too is wrong to sell their mother (yes Seychelles is our MOTHER land) to foreigners.

Everyday we Seselwa rasin, are accomplices in the deeds and crimes of the SPPF/PL, when we do business and deal with the soi disant fabrike. When we forsake a Seselwa rasin. Pat X says even the Leader of the Opposition forsake his brothers and employed malbar. Ki konfyans ou kapab annan dan parol sa boug ler i dir Sesel pour Seselwa, se pa ipokrizi tou sa la!

Vox

Vox

Anonymous said...

Boycott RAMADOSS owned companies and products in every way and hit the man where it hurts, in the pocket! And I agree form an alternative Democratic SCCI.
EXPAT.

Anonymous said...

Vox:

Agree, I got carried away in my rage about Ramadoss extensive attributes, but point taken, I should have censored myself a bit there. Fair enough. But back to the point:

Boycott is a powerful weapon and can crack even the most solid foundations and I think that is a good way to show one's disgust to something. I'm glad to hear that several have ceased from contributing to Ramadoss' ventures which not only satisfy his greed, but the greed of those controlling him(or think they do).

And for the record: This is not a racial issue(before some of you start screaming) as it is an encouragement to boycott any business which operates in non-accordance with the country's interests.

As to the casinos not being taxed, well that itself is to my opinion a huge breach of the law. It is a disgrace that the very thing that ruins so many lives and causes addiction is not taxed. I wonder if TIKLO can tell us why it should not be taxed. If he can't do so, then maybe the ones who passed that tax exemption law can enlight the public as tho who's interests this was passed in accordance with.

Tiklo: I'm ignoring you as you have ignored to see the point in the article(or rather can't be bothered to or simply cannot see the truth). Stick to the subject and stop the diversion attempts and I'll reply accordingly.

I can't however say that Ramadoss ooutsmarted anyone, but rather conned his way to victory the same way he arrnged the University lottery that was also very, very dirty indeed. I'm sure you disagree.

Anyway, I hope that the boycott is put in practice and that it hurts the targets right below the belt. I'm sure if you all think through it well you'll find that the only way to make a differnece and sae Seychellois interests is to support those who support Seychellois and boycott those who don't.

Intersting article in nation today about the UAE delegation that are here to carry out discussions about the 'donation' of the new generators to PUC. 2 generators will increase the PUC capacity by 13MegaWatts, that's 13.000 kW. Sounds all good, but when one consider how much Khalifa's palace, the new hotels owned by his fellow arabs will consume in power, I wonder what the real output increase of PUC is.

So if you all think that Khalifa is donating 2 generators to be nice to us, think again. They're to cool his palace, hotels and keep it all ship shape.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

When the cap fits, and it fits so well, wear it with pride Jeanne D'arc.

You talk of respecting laws, yet your ideology intends to disrespect laws and due process so that it can conduct ethnic cleansing as it chooses.

All the examples of citizenships you intend to revoke, were legally obtained. Not what you like, but legal all the same.

Disenfranchising a minority of citizens is a Nazi hallmark, and is the stuff of genocide and civil war.

Madagascar, Zimbabwe, Rwanda & Uganda these are some of the countries you wish to emulate.

And you can throw accusations at me about my motives and alligences, but I am not the one hiding behind a nomme de plume. When I have something to say I say it and in goodfaith. Christopher knows my identity, so he knows where I am coming from.

Mark J

Anonymous said...

There is lots of loud noise being made by some muddle-headed SPPF cronies in regards to Pat.x's article.

So far ,we have agreed to disagree on his view.Let's all bring our temper at bay ,with respect and seriousness get to the core of the problem.






For all abruted SPPF dogbodies though,i would like you all to take a few seconds of your time and go to read an article pubished this wednesday April the 14th.2010 in (UAE DAILY GOLF NEWS)by Bahrain's labor minister Mr Majeed al-Alawi on the issue of foreign workers in the golf states.

Beofre you get set note,that the golf states have long been championing the importation of foriegn workers on their soils,maybe we could take a leaf out of their book.

To give you a taste,this is what he said in the first paragraph of his statement, quote "the situation could become like Singapore and the Maldives,where foreign workers had been brought on temporary contracts and are now ruling these countries" unquote.

After reading the whole of the article ,i sincerely hope that this would be food for thoughts for all of us and make us realize how important and serious the issue is for the naitves of this land ;a land given to them by their ancestors who slaved for it.

Please stay apolitic on this issue it is of great concern to our people.

And before i pen -off,one question, does that makes Mr Majeed al-Alawi a racist?

Jeanne D'Arc

Anonymous said...

No it certainly does not make him a racist in any way and I'd personally say he has seen a coming problem. The main reason for importation of foreign workers is their price, the same way we import cheap goods from low-cost countries, i.e to save money. What most of us don't realize though is that we are making our selves a bed of nails by doing so:

1) The money we are paying is disappearing out of the country and our system is not benefitting from it, a bit liek throwing money out of the window.

2) We are neglecting the build-up of our own work-force and hence reducing work moral

3) We are encouraging hate amongst those who feel that their opportunities have been lost

4) We are risking getting a mass immigration that will lead to uncontrolled population growth. Bear in mind that we don't have that much land area or infrastructure to accomodate so many people, buildings etc.

5) Mass immigration means mass integration and hence the chance of uncontrolled conflicts between the different people. Ghettos rise and sooner or later we have a country within a country. In fact we already have one as the SCCI's Indian members have already become an isolated group. Just look at cities like Miami and certain areas dominated by certain nationals, not to mention the dominant Jews in US finance. That's where we're heading.

In other words, immigration control is vital, especially to a small nation like ours where pace and infrastructure is limited and it should be taken more seriously. Te government's duty is to work in the interest of the population born in Seychelles, the so called Fabrikes, and secure their growth and development. What the government is doing however, is securing the growt of imported workers and hence holding back the development of its own people.

I believe it is time for the PL government to stop for a few seconds and think more of the long-term consequences of their immigration policy(or rather lack of it). Strict measures must be introduced regarding immigration and work permits and quota laws must be passed to secure jobs for Seychellois born individs or those born of Seychellois parents. For instance, laws should be passed stating that any business must employ minimum 50% Seychellois and exemptions must be applied for. That way even the big hotels will at least bring some money to our community and development.

I challenge any PL official to a debate where he/she can counter-argue as to why this cannot be done and why the PL has been so clumsy regarding immigration.

I dare you all.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

To Patrick X

At long last, you seem to have seen the light. Your last contribution outlining your concerns and other issues like Immigration and Local Employment opportunities ecetera la ke lera are excellent. I am happy to acknowledge you for what you have written without character assasination and vilifiying the Government or other Individuals.

Like I have encouraged the Brothers Gill to do, they must play the ball and not the man and respect shall come to them because at the present time, their inter-personal relationships leave a lot to be desired. And again Patrick X, I am happy to see that you have come of age at long last. Take care.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,

I'll take your congrats as compliments, but I must say I disagree about not 'playing the man' as in any ball game, one must play both the man and the ball as the ball must be taken from the man you are playing against. Obvioulsy you're not familiar with playing with other balls than your own. ;-)

Unfortunately in Seychelles, our politicians have 'played the ball' for too long only to find that the game has been played with several balls on the same pitch. It's a bit like having a lottery where you print an excessive number of tickets with the same serial number or even have an election with more voting cards than registered voters. Now it the latter situation, what would you play, the cards or the man holding them?

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

Play the man Patrick X an you will lose a tou kou because the Ref will blow the whistle and give you a red card to send you off and will keep awarding penalties when ever you play the man in the penalty square.

What needs to be established is who did Mr. Percy Ahman give the 600 ballot papers to when he destroyed the "disk"?. Did he give them to Ramadoss or Mrs. Tirant. And who was responsible for the distribution the ballot papers Monsieur X?.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately the referee here is not neutral. We all know that mate and penalties are only given to certain players. So with a partial referee and no rules I say play the man as there is nothing to lose.

As the ballot papers and the process there, well I hope that is is clarified by the parties involved, but 'losing hard discs' and printing ballot papers without serial numbers and elections with more ballots than registered voters in addition to unregistered proxies. Come on, that's what is known as 'manboulouk' and that same manboulouk goes all the way up to the president.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

Excellent article Pat X and that’s what we need in this country, people who are not afraid to speak up their mind & always grad the bull by the horn.

As always, I will chip in my five cents worth. The issue here about immigration, is one that both the opposition & PL have been playing it down at any given opportunity and as a result the problems have been coumpounded into a laisser faire attitude.
If they were serious enough especially in this Mickey mouse assemble which has been recently proved-with regards to the new motion that PL has duly approved in relation for the 8 March being recognised as a Public holiday due to Women’s day.
Please, there are more important issues here, such as our immigration policy.
Why didn’t any of those supposed elected MNA especially the opposition come up with a motion on how to deal with this immigration saga and has it been ignored for so long uptill the shit hit our rivers.

My suggestion to Mouvman Seselwa Rasin (MSR) is that to establish a points-based system whereby any non-seselwa who’s seeking employment in Seychelles has to go through a vetting system earning points based on their skill, adaptability, experience, qualification, etc...Just similar to other well know countries that are tackling the immigration issue head on.

MSR should fight to introduce such system here so that we can guarantee that Seychelles is recruiting skillful professionals based on their experience, qualification, adaptability etc..and not some fleas with doggy certificate bought over the net or at the road side in Calcutta.

As well as the point system we should also set a quota for private companies as well as government organisations on the amount of foreign workers coming here for employment.

We should also make it into law that any company or government organisation can proved that they have at least advertised the named vacancy in our local media for at least 4 weeks prior and couldn’t recruit any Seselwa before they could be allowed to search further afield.

Most perks associated with these foreigner workers should be discontinued and this will save the government an astronomical amount of money. Some of them are just beyond belief.

As Pat X suggested maybe a 50/50 Seselwa foreigner quota but I would go further and say more likely 80/20 sound more reasonable.

But we can also argue that, it’s all well & good to have all these policies & regulations in place but if our government at any given opportunity will always nod in the right direction in order to satisfy certain above the law individual or bride their way along, then I’m afraid the immigration issue will still be at the forefront unless corruption are removed completely from any government in power. And this is where our impartial and democratic legal system should come into play...but this is another kettle of fish!

Niya

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Mark J:

If you read the Rasin-ist Creed you would understand that The Mouvman does not discriminate against anyone and does not advocate discriminating against anyone. We stand for equal rights of every Seselwa Rasin to own and control their own country regardless of race or religion or the origins of their ancestors.

On the issue of Fabrike we do not and have never and never will advocate the wholesale deportation of Fabrike from Seychelles - this is in clear contrast to the Nazi position towards Jews, gypsies and every non-white person in Germany. We do advocate deportation of those Fabrike who insist on controlling our country and aiding the PP Collaborators to control our country by voting in our elections.

It is our right to decide who we are and who can own and control our country. It is our right to define who is a Seselwa Rasin and to limit formal political participation only to Seselwa Rasin. This right to define yourself and to define who can participate in the political process is exercised by every country in the world.

Moreover, in our case the principle of Sesel Pou Seselwa was the founding principle of our country - "Seychelles Pour Seychellois". It has not been a secret. All Fabrike came to our country knowing that this was the founding principle of our nation. And, at independence, we Seselwa Rasin were recognized as the indigenous people of our motherland and its owners. We were not founded on the principle that we should be a political or religious refuge of the worlds oppressed.

We were founded on the principle that we Rasin should be recognized as a distinct people, the indigenous people, and that we should have the exclusive right to won and control our motherland.

So your racist and Nazi label is just a propaganda ploy for you to allow Fabrike and foreigners, with the help of the PP Collaborators, to steal our homeland from us Seselwa Rasin - it has no merit and it is not made in good faith.

Anonymous said...

Francis and Christopher,

Good faith does not mean I agree with you, it means I am not arguing with you for a partisan political end, or simply to ridicule you.

You can keep trying to find a way to ridicule me if you like,

You can keep posting your propaganda responses on Facebook in a one-sided way if you like. I challenge you to post ALL my comments "verbatim" and in whole on your facebook page.

You can continue to avoid engaging me on the real issues I raise, by repeating your chanting.

As long as we are stuck in this state of denial, we cannot move on to more constructive discussion.

I will continue to focus on my fundamental issues with the ideology itself, that I find disconcerting and Nazi.

Similarity to Nazi Movement 1:
For the Nth time please listen to me. I have read this Creed that an arbitary "executive committee" has created without an election or a mandate. This is your Mein Kampf.

Similarity to Nazi Movement 2:
Your Creed DOES intend to DISCRIMINATE against constitutionally legal citizens (under all 3 constitutions) of the Seychelles just because they were not on the Island in 1976.
You DO wish to disenfranchise these minority citizens of their right to vote.

Similarity to Nazi Movement 3:
You leave your verbage of reasons for deportation very vague as "voting" or "meddling" or "wanting to control". From the general trend of articles and comments it seems to include any of the consultative priviliges that come with success whether it is commerical, professional, vocational or political.

Similarity to Nazi Movement 4:
You have stated that you will implement your ideology by any means including taking up arms (I presume this includes gneral violence, terrorism etc.), if you cannot succeed democratically.

Similarity to Nazi Movement 5:
And you are deafeningly silent about what you will do, if your victims do not go quietly into the night. Remember that the gas chambers were a "humane" alternative to simply rolling the catle cars all the way to the Siberian desert.

I'm not going to play a superficial tit-for-tat game with you Brothers Gills and various pseudonyms.

There are a lot of constructive ways to achieve most of what you desire i.e. protecting the seychellois identity, culture and heritage (which I identify with by the way).

But I will not help spread xenophobia, and nazism as a way of achieving it.

God bless,
Mark

P.S - don't feel sorry for the SNP. Your bad cop routine allows the SNP to be the good cop for a change! And to be objective, the mainly Seychellois Rasine team handling the economic reform and recovery are gathering much admiration in the wider world. There is much good news that we should all be proud of.

Anonymous said...

Great article and wake-up call to all True Seychellois who has the counry at heart.

I would also add that we should buy more of our locally produced fruits and vegetable. This would help our local farmers and stop enriching those with big farms in far away lands.

Anonymous said...

TIKLO to Mark J,

If you are sitting down where ever you happen to be Mate, please stand up and take a bow for I salute you.

The Brothers Gill for reasons known only to themselves, are subjecting us to such "farago of verbiage with their promulgation of fiction in the 'guise of facts" can only be described as "murder by language" whilst at the same time, they hide behind their hidden agendas. Most of us enjoy are dreams when we hit the sack because our conciences are clear. The Brothers Gill however, cannot get to sleep as a result of their Kosmar - nighmares - .

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Mark J:

I will try to respond to your hysterical comment in a thoughtful and systematic way.

You say that I have accused you of making your arguments in bad faith because you disagree with us Rasin-ists. That is false. I have accused you of making your arguments in bad faith because you knowingly make false analogies about Rasin-ism. For instance, even if Rasin-ist ideology forbids any form of discrimination you insist that Rasin-ism is racism. Secondly, even though I and others have repeatedly stated that no Fabrike will be deported from the Rasin motherland unless they vote in our elections, you feign ignorance of this clear position to state Rasin-ism is like Nazism. There are more instances of your lack of good faith, but given the limited space here I will leave it with the two examples I have outlined for the time being.

Secondly, you state that The Mouvman has only posted one sided arguments on its Facebook page. You argue that The Mouvman should make your arguments for you on its Facebook page. This position is ludicrous. Free speech does not mean the speaker must make the argument for both sides of an issue. Like in this Blog you or anyone else is free to post any comment, short of abject vulgarity, on The Mouvman's Facebook page. We have an open book policy that allows you to make your point as you wish - uncensored, but we have no obligation to actually make your arguments for you. Which, by the way, is another distinguishing characteristic of The Mouvman from Nazism and from your PP Collaborator friends - we believe in and practice free speech and believe that this right applies to everyone - including Fabrike which I presume includes you.

You say we have refused to engage you on the real issue. What issue is that? We have responded to each of your positions and refuted them. Just because we have successfully refuted your arguments, and rejected your unsupported positions does not mean we have not engaged you head on. We have and we will continue to engage you head on, toe to toe.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Cont. Ans. to Mark J:

You outline 5 different points that you say equates Rasin-ism with Nazism. All of the points you raised are bogus. I will show you why.

The first point you make is that the Rasin-ist Creed is equivalent to Mein Kampf, My Struggle in English, Adolf Hitler's agenda for murdering all the Jews, gypsies and non-whites in Europe which he wrote in prison in 1923 after his failed putsch. If you have read Mein Kampf and you have read the Rasin-ist Creed you could not possibly conclude that the two works are equivalent in any meaningful way. For instance Hitler advocated murdering the weak and sick since he believed that was more humane than keeping them alive - there is nothing even remotely close to that in the Creed. So I do not believe you have read the 2 volumes of Mein Kampf.

Unlike Mein Kamf the Rasin-ist Creed does not seek to exterminate anyone. We Seselwa Rasin do not believe we are superior to anyone as Hitler postulated the Germanic people were superior to all others in Mein Kampf - we seek equal treatment before the law with foreigners and Fabrike in our own homeland. I could go on for several hundred pages more describing in great detail the patent, actual, metaphysical and philosophical differences between the Rasin-ist Creed and Mein Kampf, but will stop here for now. So this analogy that you make between Mein Kampf and the Rasin-ist Creed is one more instance of your bad faith in making your argument - you make analogies you have no intellectual right or basis to make.

Your second point of false comparison between Nazism and Rasin-ism is that the Rasin-ist Creed discriminates against "citizens" of Seychelles. While this is more of a statement than a political argument I will fill in the intellectual and logical blank spaces in your argument and paraphrase what I believe was the point you were trying to make. You argue that we Rasin-ists are discriminating against Fabrike by denying them legitimate rights to be Seychellois and to all rights of a Seychellois.

In the first instance, we Rasin-ists disagree that Fabrike are Seychellois. They are counterfeit Seychellois. They will never be Seychellois and they never were Seychellois. So we cannot discriminate against them as Seychellois by denying them the rights of a Seychellois if they were never Seychelloisin in the first place. You say they were constitutionally entitled to be Seychellois. We Rasin-ists disagree. Fabrike citizenship was issued extra-constitutionally and immorally. In many instances it was obtained simply by purchasing the citizenship from a clique in power with barely a majority of votes fortified by fraudulent voters and who gerrymandered the districts to give them an illegitimate right to alter constitutional provisions at will. This illegal, immoral and fraudulent scheme would not stand in your country, why do you think we Seselwa Rasin must accept it in ours. In any European nation where the ruling party would have sold its citizenship rights to load 10% of the electoral roles with these false voters to keep themselves in power the offending party would face a full blown revolution. What is it about us that makes you believe we should not have the same rights or that we should not be equally offended by this fraudulent scheme to subjugate us? Is it our religion, our color, our lack of wealth? What is it? I say to you Mark J we too will not stand for this kind of abuse by our so called leaders and we intend to change the situation.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Cont. Ans to Mark J:


Your third comparison of Nazism and Rasin-ism is equally inarticulate as your second reason and which I will attempt to decipher as I have your second argument. Your third point seems to be a complaint that we Rasin-ists have not been sufficiently clear about our intentions vis-a-vis Fabrike who vote in our elections. Though I fail to see how a lack of clarity in one's position makes one a Nazi as you seem to argue, I direct you to Article VII paragraph 3 of the Rasin-ist Creed which should have clearly answered your question, yet, you say you have read the Creed. To paraphrase the referenced paragraph: no Fabrike will be deported unless they vote in our elections.

Your fourth argument is that Rasin-ism is equivalent to Nazism because we reserve our right of revolution to change a corrupt and violent government that will hold on to power by all means. You seem to argue that because we Seselwa Rasin retain our right of revolution we are Nazis. That would have made George Washington and Nelson Mandela Nazis. In short your argument is pure nonsense and just garbled words thrown out masquerading as an intellectual argument. But in the interests of clarity, we Rasin-ists have stated that we will exhaust all peaceful means before we take any direct action. We reject terrorism as a political tool but we embrace general strikes and a general uprising and revolution if all peaceful means fails to take our country back from the Fabrike and foreigners and their Collaborator friends. So yes, if the PP Collaborators use Fabrike, fraudulent voters and violence to keep power we Seselwa Rasin reserve the right of revolution just like Nelson Mandela did in South Africa against the racist apartheid regime.

Your fifth and last argument equating Nazism and Rasin-ism is based on a question - though it is beyond me how a question concerning Rasin intentions makes us Nazis. Your question is what will a Rasin-ist government do if we issue a deportation order to a Fabrike who has voted in our elections and he or she refuses to go. A Rasin-ist government will prosecute all such Fabrike as illegal aliens and they will be given an appropriate sentence and fine. After they have served their sentence, they will be placed on the next available aircraft leaving our country to any other country that will accept them, and preferably their country of origin.

Lastly, you state that Christopher and I have used pseudonyms in presenting our comments on this Blog. This is false. Whenever we comment on this Blog we use our names. We have nothing to hide and we are not afraid of anyone or their arguments.

So, since we are not afraid of you foreigners or Fabrike or any arguments you can present, we are not Xenophobic as you assert, but instead we are patriots and nationalists.

Anonymous said...

Francis your argument is even more Nazi, but I am not going to post here anymore because your movement is exploiting my good faith for your political propaganda on facebook.

So much for decency and moral values! But you are/want to be a politician, so I forgive you :-)

I'll leave you with this thought, the sum total of your argument to me might as well have been:

Mark you argue that we Nazi-ists are discriminating against Jews by denying them legitimate rights to be German and to all rights of a German.

In the first instance, we Nazi-ists disagree that Jews are German. They are counterfeit German. They will never be German and they never were German. So we cannot discriminate against them as Germans by denying them the rights of a German if they were never German in in the first place. You say they were constitutionally entitled to be German. We Nazi-ists disagree. German citizenship was issued extra-constitutionally and immorally.

Signing off,
Mark J

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Mark J:

Your participation in this Blog is up to you. But you are welcome to continue to participate, and I urge you to do so, in order to present your point of view on the important issues at stake. The presentation of your point of view, even though I strongly disagree with it, helps both sides to understand each other and perhaps find common ground - this process therefore benefits the Rasin homeland and Seselwa Rasin people.

But, as I previously pointed out to TIKLO, a close friend and proxy of Rene the Butcher, no one will dictate terms of their continued participation on this Blog - it is a free, uncensored and open forum. And, as I have pointed out to you previously, you are free to comment on The Mouvman's Facebook page as you wish, including but not limited to, when we post responses to your comments on our Facebook page. But, we will use our responses to your comments on this Blog as we please when we please.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Cont. Ans. to Mark J:

Insofar as the Jews of Germany are concerned, several distinctions exit between their position in Nazi Germany and the Fabrike position in Seychelles. In the case of the Jews of Germany, they did not buy their citizenship. Additionally they were not illegitimately naturalized in any way. Many of the Fabrike have purchased their citizenship. In many cases the Fabrike obtained and have used their counterfeit citizenship to engage in and promote illicit and illegal purposes in Seychelles and abroad, bringing disrepute to our country and to our citizenship in the international community. For those Fabrike who have used their Seychelles citizenship illicitly, they acquired their citizenship as part of a criminal scheme, design or plan - no nation should have to recognize citizenship obtained as part of an illegal scheme to be misused in criminal activities and none do. Why should we? Many Fabrike obtained our citizenship as part of illegal bribery schemes where they bribed and continue to bribe PP Collaborator government officials in order to receive preferential illegal treatment and to be above our laws and with the intent to be shielded from our laws or to keep their illicit gains shielded by their counterfeit citizenship. No nation should be required and none are required to allow those kinds of counterfeit citizens to retain their citizenship and neither should we.

In short the Jews of Nazi Germany were denied their citizenship by the Nazis based on their religion not on how they obtained their citizenship, and not on the basis of wrongdoing in obtaining their citizenship in the first place.

Additionally, the Nazis advocated the murder of Jews and the confiscation of their property. No Rasin-ist is advocating the murder of Fabrike or the confiscation of their property as you imply through your analogy. Rasin-ism only informs you Fabrike that Seychelles is not your country and you have no right to own or control it -this is a right that belongs solely to the Seselwa Rasin people. This right of an indigenous people to identify oneself is recognized and protected by the United Nations.

Moreover, the right to define who is a citizen is a right that all countries exercise. For instance I cannot go to Germany and decide that I am a German. The Germans have their own rules on how I can become a German and under what conditions that citizenship can be revoked. We can have ours.

Furthermore, in most countries your claim to citizenship can be revoked for a multitude of reasons that undermine the basis on which you obtained citizenship in the first place. In the United States, for instance, failure to disclose that you were a Nazi or a communist can result in revocation of your claim to citizenship even decades later. So we Seselwa Rasin are perfectly within our legal rights when we state our intentions to revoke Fabrike citizenship.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Cont Ans. to Mark J;

You may argue that there are some Fabrike who have not violated our laws, bribed officials or obtained their citizenship in a scheme to misuse it. We Rasin-ists, after much discussion and after considering that there may be some Fabrike who should be allowed to become Seselwa Rasin on humanitarian grounds, created a procedure to do just that - allow law abiding and productive Fabrike to become Seselwa Rasin.

We have established a procedure for this to occur as described in the Rasin-ist Creed. This humanitarion waiver of revocation is one more important distinction between Nazi ideology and Rasin-ism that negates your central premise that equates Rasin-ism with Nazism.

Any Fabrike who does not vote in our elections and who has not violated our laws, or the laws of other countries using their counterfeit citizenship, will be allowed to request a humanitarian waiver to become Seselwa Rasin. Each approved application for a waiver of revocation must then be approved by a majority of Seselwa Rasin voting in the confirmation of the waiver election in order for the Fabrike to become a Seselwa Rasin.

So we Rasin-ists have establish a very carefully calibrated and nuanced procedure to deal with the Fabrike issue that takes into consideration the humanitarian aspect of the Fabrike situation, again making your Nazi analogy a false one.

Anonymous said...

No Francis, any democracy that threatens minorities to influence their voting behaviour, will be a sick democracy. And this is what you are advocating. Today its so-called Fabrikes, tomorrow what minority will you target and threaten to win an election?

Your excuse is that some of that minority might be criminal, so all of them are until proven otherwise. This is a Nazi excuse.

That is the principle I'm arguing about.

If I were being political, I'd say perhaps thats why you are so fond of the 1976 election where an elitests class took 13 of 15 seats with 52% of the votes?

I fear to see what mangling of my argument you will now post on facebook!!

And no I cannot respond to you on facebook without becoming a "fan" of your creed. And I cannot become a "fan" of your creed as it stands.

Mark

Anonymous said...

Francis Gill,

I have not dictated any "terms on your blog" what so ever.

You are the vile insulter accusing any one with different views from your own as "kolaborateur, Proxy and refering to a Legend in his own Lifetime as a "Butcher."

You should hang your head in shame with your Nazism philosophies in the 'guise of Rasin-ism. Your so called "mouveman" will never succeed in Seychelles. You are playing with fire young Man and when one plays with fire, one is likely to get burnt and you are likely to be shot down in flame and this is not a threat but a manner of speech. Now do not get your knickers in a knot Mate. This is only some very sound advice. Regards TIKLO and TIKLO carries his own Head on his Shoulders.

Anonymous said...

Tiklo,

Mandela is a legend in his own lifetime, so was Mother Theresa, Ghandi an a fe others.

I don't know what your qualifications for becoming a legend is, but I can assure you that murder, theft, corruption, dictatorship and neglect of one's people certainly does not help in the qualification process. Now is Rene guilty of the above? If the answer is 'yes' then forever hold your piss....ehh peace whilst you suck on a pair of eggs.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

Patrick X asked TIKLO if "Rene is guilty of the above?.

My answer to you is that France Albert Rene has too much CLASS and not his style to be all the things that you and others of your ilks have accused him of being. The Man has been insulted more than Jesus Christ himself.

All the Complotteurs, Saboteurs, subverseurs and Collaborateurs were warned to stop doing what they were doing in their upteenth attempts to userp the SPPF.

They failed to heed the good advice and the rest is History.

What annoys me the most is the fact that so many Seychellois were able to migrate to Countries that they would not have normally been able to if it was not for FAR. And the reasons they gave us why they left Seychelles to be here are something else again.

Freedom of Speech always existed in Seychelles and will forever and a day will be freedom of speech. The Key Word is not what one has to say, but it is how one says it.

Even to this day, the new Kids on the Political Block think that as a result of our Democracy, one can say and do what they wish. To this, I say get your act together or go and get stuffed tou sa bann mal elve pa konpren. And the biggest culprit on this blog is one Francis Gill.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Mark J:

I thought you did not intend to participate any further. But I am pleasantly surprised to see you back.

Some housekeeping issues. First, you say that you cannot comment on The Mouvman's Facebook page without becoming a fan. Here's a suggestion. You can preface every one of your comments with an introductory sentence that states you are only a member to negate the points or ideology lodged by The Mouvman.But this is the extent to which I will go in giving you advice on how to make your argument.

Secondly, you fear how I will "mangle" your argument you made in your last comment. Someone who has a good argument can defend it and should fear no person mangling it Whatever is "mangled" they can un-mangle. A person with a good argument can defend it in the open, fair and square without sarcasm or other lower forms of humor which are usually the refuges of scoundrels liars and hypocrites.

So if your arguments are good ones, stand your ground and defend them. I will do the same. This battle of ideas is what will inform those who are observing the discussion who is correct and who is not.

Besides the general whining that I have addressed above, you make some valid points in your comment that requires a response.

You say that The Mouvman is threatening your Fabrike voting rights in order to influence an election. You have once more misunderstood our Creed and my previous arguments. So I will restate them and make new ones.

In the first place we are not stating that Fabrike have no right to vote to influence an election. We are stating that fact to emphasize that Fabrike are not real Seychellois and they have no such right and that Seychelles does not belong to them and they have no right to control our motherland. So this is not a matter of an election. It is a matter of fundamental principle. I will explain further of our philosophy underpinning this basic point.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Cont.Ans. to Mark J:
You Fabrike have no voting rights. Those rights belong solely to Seselwa Rasin. Your claim to be Seychellois is illegitimate and void. I have outlined why that is so in my previous comments on the issue. To take from you Fabrike what was improperly given or taken by you Fabrike in the first place, is not a violation of anything - it is a restoration. In the case of Fabrike, revocation of your illegitimate citizenship is a restoration of Seselwa Rasin rights to own and control our motherland. So your entire argument rests on a false premise - that you Fabrike are real and legitimate Secyhellois; you are not, and never will be, unless a majority of the Seselwa Rasin people voting agree to accept you as a Rasin.

You have mistakenly believed that I am fond of the 1974 (not 1976) election because it disproportionately awarded MNA seats tot he SDP (now DP). I am fond of the 1976 election because it was the election that established the mandate for creating our homeland and established the founding principle of our motherland. In that election the SPUP demanded independence to make Seychelles Pour Seychellois. The Seychellois people were commonly understood to be the people who inhabited Seychelles on June 29th 1976 and not all the Fabrike who followed.

This idea of a Seychelles for Secyhellois was the founding principle of the SPUP which my late Father, Philibert Loiseau and Rene the Butcher founded in 1964. Mancham and his SDP, at the time, agreed and conceded that Seychelles should be for Seychellois and should become an independent republic under that banner. So Sesel Pou Seselwa is and was the founding principle of our motherland. So I am not fond of the 1974 election because it provided disproportionate votes to the SDP, but because it established the founding principle of our motherland. In fact I agree that disproportionate apportionment of MNA's in 1974 was a flaw in the apportionment process then just like it is now, where the PP Collaborators control almost 80% of MNA's with a majority bolstered by Fabrike and fraudulent voters.

Less than one year after the 1974 mandate to make Sesel Pou Seselwa was implemented in June of 1976 on our Independence Day, Rene the Butcher, betrayed the founding principle of our motherland and brought in hundreds of Tanzanians troops onto our sacred soil to massacre Rasin in their own homeland so he could, in my opinion, grab dictatorial power and fleece the motherland to benefit his personal pocket and that of his family members.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Cont. Ans to Mark J:

Rene the Butcher then, protected by the barrel of foreign guns, proceeded to exile, directly and indirectly, approximately 30% of the Rasin population causing the Great Suffering to the Rasin people, and replaced them with more pliant sycophantic Fabrike who would brown-nose him for a few Rupees - something many Rasin were simply unwilling to do. Many Rasin paid with their lives because they loved their freedom more than Rene the Butcher's promises of illicit wealth and loved their freedom and their country more than they feared Rene the Butcher and his foreign mercenaries threats - my late Father was one of them. Rene the Butcher, and later Michel the Collaborator, used this Fabrike population he had imported in violation of all the founding principles of his party and of our motherland, to steal elections by using their votes to obtain a "majority" of votes in subsequent elections allowing him to entrench his betrayal of Sesel Pou Seselwa.

So any current Fabrike in our motherland are the beneficiaries of the Great Suffering which was a great crime unequal in size which was perpetrated by Rene the Butcher against his own people. So just like the person who purchases or inherits a stolen Renoir painting which was stolen by the Nazis from its original Jewish owners, you, as a beneficiary of this great crime of Rene the Butcher's against his own people cannot keep the proceeds of that great crime - those proceeds are your counterfeit citizenship which must be returned to its rightful owners; just like the stolen Renoir painting must be returned to its rightful ownersw, even decades later.

So these facts are the genesis of the illegitimacy of Fabrike "rights" as you call them. The other facts such as the rampant corruption and illegality associated with many if not most Fabrike "citizenship" are added reasons justifying revocation of their ill gotten and ill used gains.

But in the final analysis, what is interesting to me is how many tears you shed for Fabrike democracy and democratic rights and none for Rasin democracy and suffering caused by Rene the Butcher and Michel the Collaborator. But I agree those tears you shed are yours and of your concern. So we too will make our tears and our suffering our concern and not yours. We will make sure that you Fabrike do not allow Rene the Butcher and Michel the Collaborator to use you and your counterfeit votes to consolidate the proceeds of the betrayal of their own people and their selling out of their own people to Fabrike like yourself and Ramadoss and to foreigners like Khalifa.

But we Seselwa Rasin are not a hard hearted people like the Nazis you like to compare us with. We have considered your tears and we have conceded that those Fabrike who unconditionally accept the principle that Seychelles belong only to us Rasin and no one else, can be allowed, by majority vote, to become Rasin.

For those who refuse to respect this principle of Sesel Pou Seselwa by voting in our future elections, we will deport you - this is non-negotiable if I have anything to do with the issue.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

TIKLO:

You said you would not continue to participate on the Blog if I insisted on calling your best friend Rene the Butcher. If you want the direct quote from you, I can provide it. I said I would not stop calling Rene the Butcher his correct name since that would be a betrayal of all those he butchered in our homeland. You said you would therefore not continue to participate. In my view, and most other reasonable people's view, this is an attempt to dictate to me the terms of your continued participation on this Blog. So you did unsuccessfully attempt to dictate the terms of your participation.

Perhaps you are too old and sick to remember your words. I suggest you review your previous comments before you disavow them - they are in writing and can be accessed and shown to you.

On the substance of your comments, I disagree that I call "everyone" who disagrees with me a Collaborator. I do not. Many people have disagreed with me on this Blog, and I have not called them a Collaborator. I call someone a Collaborator when that is what they are and have told me so -like you. A Collaborator takes the interests of foreigners and Fabrike over the interests of their own people the Seselwa Rasin - like you do. You even refer to Khalifa as Highness; and you want the rest of us Seselwa Rasin citizens of our Republic to do so too. So I call you a Collaborator not because of your ideas but because of what you do - take the interests of foreigners and Fabrike over your own people.

My head is held high and proud in my efforts for The Mouvman. You as a close friend of the Butcher should be ashamed of yourself for defending such a dastardly character as the Butcher - he has inflicted suffering on his own people of a relative scale comparable to Hitler himself. You Collaborators should be ashamed of yourself for selling out your own people for a few Rupees. You and Rene the Butcher should be ashamed of bringing foreign Tanzanian troops onto our sacred motherland to butcher your own people - the Seselwa Rasin. All the shame here belongs to you and your best friend Rene the Butcher - not to me.

You say I am playing with fire and will be burned, and then say it is not a threat. But it is a threat. But I am not afraid of your threat. I know I will be burnt by you Collaborators - but I have no fear of you, it is gone. When I am burnt, there will others who will take my place. Then it is not I who will fear the fire but you PP Collaborators. Then you will wish that I was still around to save your miserable skins from the vengeful flames of the Seselwa Rasin - your own people.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Cont. Ans to TIKLO:

You have marked me as public enemy number one in your response to Patrick X. From a low character as yourself who would befriend and even lower character like your best friend Rene the Butcher, I consider that to be a compliment of the highest order.

But your answer to Patrick X is also instructive of your unapologetic dictatorial character.

The first incredible admission you make is that Rene the Butcher did in fact butcher his own people murdering them wholesale. But you argue it was their own fault since they continued to oppose Rene's dictatorial one party state after they were warned to stop doing so. And you call me a Nazi? Your friend Rene the Butcher and all those who aided him to murder Seselwa Rasin, including you, will be brought to justice for these crimes.

The second incredible point you make is that those 30% of the Seselwa Rasin population that your friend Rene the Butcher exiled in the Great Suffering were lucky because they were able to use Rene the Butcher's brutality to justify claims of political asylum. So therefore you imply that they wee lucky that the butcher was so brutal. Has it not occurred to you, in the sick mind you have, that those exiled Rasin did not want to leave their homeland in the first place and that they really did need political asylum because they were escaping the real potential of torture and death. The countries that gave them asylum do not do so easily. They investigate and conclude that asylum is warranted by the brutality of the regime they were escaping. The fact that many Rasin were granted asylum is an indictment of the Butcher not his redemption. The fact that so many Rasin needed asylum is an indictment of the Butcher not he exoneration.

You say that there always has been freedom of speech in Seychelles, as long as Rene the butcher was not offended by what was said. You say that as long as Rene the Butcher was not offended by how and what you said you were free to speak. That is you idea of freedom of speak and you call me a Nazi? Who is the real Nazi here me or you with innocent Seselwa Rasin blood on your hands?

We Rasin will tell you and your friend Rene the Butcher what we consider freedom of speech. You will not tell us what it is. If you do not like how or what we say that is your concern not ours. The days of the Butcher dictating what we can and cannot say are over. This Blog is an example of that fact.

Here we Rasin-ists, who are accused by murders, dictators and thieves of Rasin property, who call us racists and Nazis are being taught by us how to conduct a free, open, democratic and liberal discussions where all views including those from the Butcher's proxy - you - can be presented here without any kind of censorship. So who is the real Nazi - me or you?

Anonymous said...

Actually on reflection your copying of one-sided replies onto facebook serves my purposes too, even if it helps to increase the number of "fans" you gather. Keep doing it, you will know when my purpose has been served.

Now, since you want to make this personal:

Your understanding of law is as little as your understanding of human rights and citizenship!

Your legal premise is based on "it was commonly understood that nobody could become a Seychellois after 1976"? and you maintain this despite it not being mentioned in the first constitution, or any of its sucessors? This is beer bottle discussion at its best!!

On this and other accusations I am quietly confident that I can wipe the floor of any court room (apart from the kangaroo court of your dreams!).

Your equating of citizenship with stolen paintings highlights two things: 1) The fixation of the MSR founders on ego, their own business interests and their object materialism. You see everything in those terms 2)Your total and utter lack of altruism about citizenship, democratic duties of a citizen and human rights in general.

Look at your attitude to Seychellois artists. You have fobbed them off with a "make a stand for yourselves" speech. Artists don't decide the value of their art by making a stand, its the public who make their work valuable by appreciating it. But then there is no big money for you in the arts side of things, so as far as you are concerned they can go do their stuff on the sidelines of MSR. Put your money where your mouth is and BUY their art to make it valuable. Urge your followers to do likewise!!

Your ethnic cleansing intentions will be as acceptable to the global community as: the BNP throwing all Non-English out of England, or Le Penn throwing all the muslims out of France, or the American Indians throwing all the immigrants out of North America, Or the South American natives throwing all the Spanish and Portugese descendents out of South America, or the Aborigines throwing all the immigrant "counterfeit citizens" out of Australia... or the Nazi's clearing the Jews out of Germany. What future do you promise the Rasins, one like Zimbabwe, North Korea and Iran? Another pariah state with an ego bigger than its head?

Perhaps this explains why the colours of SPUP, DP, SPPF and now this MSR have all adorned your chests off and on?

Perhaps this explains why you have at various times glorified and vilified the leaders of all parties depending on which side might butter your bread.

For some of us, and I speak for all the Seychellois I grew up with, the ones with the most qualified opinions because they have lived under all three republics; politics is mainly about concience not money and material things. We work hard for the latter as professionals.

In both the one-party and multi-party periods of our history, I have (despite your Fabrike title) taken a stand on matters of conscience in a non-partisan manner.

I have faced the business end of angry old ladies from the militia, the omnious presence of police batons, and even bullets fired overhead, to make a point of conscience. But I have always done this in a respectful, humble, and constructive manner.

If I'm not mistaken at that time some of you "patriots" were too busy making money "dan feyaze", or chilling out "lo Glacis", to be bothered with the "Rasin" in the manure.

And finally, despite my opinions I cannot say I faced any material repercussions, EXCEPT from one "returning exile" who pressured my boss in a commercial organisation to fire me because I wrote an open letter in the Nation about our profession, which had nothing to do with my company. Now this erstwile patriot is sitting pat I guess with his freedom of speech!

Mark J

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Mark J:

You should calm down and make coherent arguments rather than froth at the mouth rambling on like your pal TIKLO Rene the Butcher's proxy.

As I have said, The Mouvman will do whatever it wants whenever it wants to with my comments here. You can do whatever you want in response. We will deal with what you do when and wherever you do it.

You are a Fabrike who probably received or paid for your citizenship under the dictator Rene the Butcher's Constitution imposed on us Seselwa Rasin by the barrel of foreign guns. Some legitimacy that gives you.

I look forward to seeing you in court or on any other field of contest where I will defeat and crush you, as I am defeating you by exposing your counterfeit and illegitimate status here.

You once more exagerate how Rasin-ists intend to handle the Fabrike issue. No one is talking about deporting all Fabrike. No one is talking about deporting all people of a particular color. No one is talking about deporting every Fabrike of a particular race. None of your comparisons and arguments make any coherent sense and are exaggerated simply to seek sympathy. Since your arguments about "ethnic cleansing" are nonsense I will say no more on this issue here.

You talk about people making money - where did that come from? All the peole in The Mouvman do what we do for free. What is this fixation of yours with money? What does money matter when we are talking about Sesel Pou Seselwa and you Fabrike like Ramadoss and foreigners like Khalifa stealing our country from under our noses?

You say you have done this or that to promote freedom of Seselwa Rasin implying that me and my family have done less. Perhaps you do not know my family's history given that you are a relative newcomer to our shores. There are few families who have sacrificed as much money, time, sweat and tears as my collective family has done to make Sesel Pou Seselwa over the last decades.

Finally, in part to allow you to comment on our Facebook page, we have, with the help of a friendly contributor, found a way to allow anyone to contribute on our Facebook Wall - that includes Fabrike like you. So make your arguments in a clear and logical fashion and stop whining.

Anonymous said...

The whining and foaming is coming from you mon dalon, and the twisted words that are attributed to me on Facebook by MSR.

Who are the secretive and sinister people in this committee of the Mouvman Seselwa Rasin? Who is this secretive person who posts your comments on facebook as Mouvman Seselwa Rascin?

Why do they hide in the dark, or is this just the ramblings of two brothers? or just yours Leonard Francis Gill?

Do they share your convictions?

Do they have the courage of their convictions to publicly put their names behind your slanderous statement that I have acquired my Seychelles citizenship illegally and or I have participated in fraud and or corruption and or bribery thereafter?

Mark J

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Mark J:

The Leadership Committee will announce itself at the appropriate time and place. You should be the last person to whine, once more, about hiding in the dark while using a pseudonym instead of your real name in these comments.

Rest assured that what I write here is consistent with the beliefs of The Mouvman as outlined in the Rasin-ist Creed which has been approved by the Leadership Committee. The words of each particular comment are my own, and I put my name on them to indicate that fact.

Again, The Mouvman has allowed anybody to contribute on its Facebook Wall without requiring you to join The Mouvman. Wasn't that your main complaint, that we in The Mouvman addressed for you? Even after we have accommodated you, so you can have a free and open forum to write what you please, you are still whining how we are twisting your words. Why don't you just tell us how your words have been twisted instead of your perpetual whining?

There you go again Mr J. exaggerating what I have written to gain sympathy. I said you probably purchased your "citizenship" or obtained it under Rene the Butcher's dictatorship constitution which was imposed on us Rasin at the barrel of foreign guns. Therefore, your claim that your Fabrike "citizenship" is constitutionally legitimate is laughable since the constitution itself was illegitimate.

I also said that most Fabrike like you, but not all, appear to have been engaged in illegal and illicit activities while using their ill gotten Seychellois passports to do so. Where did you get all this other nonsense about slander (though the correct term is libel which should have been obvious to a self-proclaimed legal scholar like yourself)?

And a self-proclaimed legal scholar you should also know that since everything that I have written about you Fabrike in general and you Mr J. in particular is true, what has been written cannot be considered libelous or defamatory. Instead of whining about being "slandered" why don't you just set the record straight? No one will stop you from doing that here.

Are all we Seselwa Rasin just supposed to bow down when Mimsye J......... has spoken and just say "Mimsye J........ has spoken we must all keep our mouths shut and accept what he has said?" That's how you Fabrike want us Seselwa Rasin to be - isn't it? I have breaking news for you Mimsye J........, that will not be the case with The Mouvman.

Anonymous said...

Oh yes Francis Racin Gill,

I did reconsider my participation in the strong belief that I shall chip away your thick Racist Rasin Skin in order for you to see the light because ou vraiment bez fer la pein Mate. Arrrrhhhhhhhh!.

Anonymous said...

Ahh wi mon piti,

Don't snivel, you chose to make this personal to try and scare me into silence.

Now because you cannot argue with me about the real risk of abuse that your ideology creates, you are resorting to gutter politics.

Now make up your mind Do you or do you not know who I am?

First you say I am hiding behind a psudonym, then you say that most Fabrike like me appear to have been engaged in illegal and illicit activities while using their ill gotten Seychellois passports to do so.

Do you and your movement represented by its committee and the administrator of its facebook page, while knowing my identity, make the above assertions?

If I am a pseudonym how do you devine that I am a "Fabrike" [sic] or that I merit any of the other vile accusations you throw at me?

And now this is interesting, you have types of Fabrike? your creed does not talk of types of Fabrike..........yet!

Let me see that would be Russian Fabrike, Chinese Fabrike, South African Fabrike, Indian Fabrike, Arab Fabrike? or would that be too racist, so its on your sister page on Facebook "Sesel PouSeselwa".

Is this your carefully nuanced and caliberated "filter" system for processing Fabrike?

Mark J

Anonymous said...

Mr. Mark J. the future we propose will be one which will be decided by Seselwa be it good or bad.It will be done in a democratic way thus if they ever failed to work we would least be better able to accept our own failures as to the contary if they would be forced of us as it is case now.And note we a sovereign country we will take decisions which we think are good for our people first than listen to foreigners if time allows.

One question Mark you seem to be a fan of Nazism in regards to the words you used such as :SIEG HEIL=HOLY VICTORY,MEIN KAMPF=MY WAR,and probably soon it would be "SS KINDER" or '"ARBEIT MACHT FREI" what's next on your calendar?

Jeanne D'Arc

Anonymous said...

Jeanne D'Arc, :-) I will consider my mission accomplished if I can prevent our Seychellois people from being fooled into thinking ARBEIT MACHT FREI really means what it says in simple German! :-)

When citizens turn on citizens it always ends in the same place, don't be naive about how it starts or the motives of the secretive people who start it.

Mark J

Leoanrd Francis Gill said...

TIKLO:

Is that you camouflaged under an anonymous label saying you reconsidered participating on this Blog to change my mind about Rasin-ism? If that is you TIKLO, are you now finally admitting that you tried to dictate terms to me for your participation on this Blog, and backed down when I held my ground on principle? Do I sense a faint whiff of honesty from you, at last, in your old age TIKLO? Or is my optimism about your self-redemption much overblown?

TIKO unlike you, and your best friend Rene the Butcher, I keep an open mind about everything. I am always looking out for a better way to do all things. So I will listen to you, as I would anyone else, with that open mind.

However, if your future arguments will be as disjointed, incoherent and of such a low quality you have presented thus far, you have about an equal chance of changing my mind about Rasin-ism as you would in moving Trois Freres into the ocean with your bare hands overnight.

Oh, ... and Rasin-ists do not discriminate against anyone, so we cannot be racist.

Leoanrd Francis Gill said...

Mark J:

Your fondness for irrelevant German phrases and analogies to books like Mein Kamf, you have never read, shows all of us you are trying too hard to look intellectual. In fact these faulty analogies show you to be the dunce you really are.

Make your arguments cleanly and efficiently, and state what you mean with plain words. What's with all this German you are fond of quoting, that you really do not fully understand?

Once again, you are not a real Seychellois citizen. You are a Fabrike - a counterfeit. So no Seselwa Rasin is turning on any citizen by stating the obvious fact that you are a Fabrike.

Secondly you were not so concerned about the Butcher turning on his own people other Seselwa Rasin citizens, literally slicing some of us up alive - but yet you are concerned now about citizens turning on each other? These are crocodile tears and we all know it. What really concerns you is that we Seselwa Rasin are ready to take our country back from Fabrike like you and Ramadoss and foreigners like Khalifa.

Anonymous said...

Francis,

My point is simple:

I am a citizen as defined by the globally recognised constitution your brother signed. He proudly talks about it in his latest article on this blog.

I refuse to define myself by any other fabricated classes of citizens you dream up.

No amount of chanting will take this away from me.

No amount of intimidation, bullying and ridicule will scare me.

I know I have the civilised world behind me.

Now:

I sympathised with your broad underlying grievience, but your ideological creed and your attitude to me forces me to stand up to you.

Your "creed" can be used for much more than what you two simpletons think it will. There are no checks and balances to control those sinister shadows lurking in the background.

ARBEIT MACHT FREI will be the only logical solution to silence this voice which does not fight nor go away.

You and Christopher may not agree with that course of action, but the agenda will no longer be yours.

Mark J

Anonymous said...

Mark .J you don^t have to define yourself if you are one of those illegal Indians who were squeezed in containers like sardines and then dropped in our forest at La Misere by Arabs.
We Rasin will define you whether you like it or not.

we will never ever tolerate neither Ramboss nor you turning our country into a little India as your grand parants did in FIJI.

likewise,i you think India is overpopulated please take a leaf in the chinese book and ask your people to stop doing childrens like pigs then only you would be able to feed yourselves.

Jeanne D'Arc

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Mark J:

There you go again with your irrelevant German phrases. Maybe you are a closet Nazi?

You are a Fabrike and not a real Seychellois. No amount of chanting or whining or appeals to sympathy by playing the victim will change that.

As Guy Sinon, a hero of Independence was fond of saying in the 1974 campaign and I paraphrase him here: En sat ki ne dan en bwat Gines pas vin a boutey Gines y encore en sat - a cat born in a box of Guinness remains a cat and does not become a bottle of Guinness. This was his way of saying Seychelles does not and should not belong to Fabrike like you and that a Seychellois is derived from ancestry and not birth or naturalization.

I disagree that the civilized world is behind the sale of our passports to Fabrike who, in some cases, cannot even identify where Seychelles is located on the world map. Seychelles belongs to these Fabrike too, like it belongs to you? We Seselwa Rasin are your victims not the other way around. We deserve sympathy not you.

If you sympathize with our broad underlying grievance as you say, but do not like my tone or my posture personally, then step in and say what you agree with and what you do not agree with. Make reasonable suggestions how to address our grievances without affecting your position - I may not agree with you but it might make it easier to narrow our differences. Instead you stand on indefensible grounds defending the rights of Fabrike to own and control our homeland who don't even know where it is.

If you have been reading this blog for the past several months you would have noticed that I incorporate good ideas from others such as Patrick X, that I initially disagreed with, into my position - and I convinced the Leadership Committee to do so to in the Creed.

I have treated you with such contempt and hostility as you identity because when you first approached this issue, it was with such arrogance and condescension reminiscent to me of how you Fabrike treat us Rasin in our own homeland. That will not be tolerated anymore.

Now that you are taking a more reasonable and respectful tone, you too will be treated with a more reasonable and respectful tone and posture. You will show all us Seselwa Rasin respect or we will disrespect you in equal or more amount, and in the end, you, and all other Fabrike like you, will be the loser.

You are right me and my brother are simpletons. We have a very simple idea and it is: Sesel Pou Seselwa. This simple ideas means that Seychelles was never yours and it never will be and our Creed establishes a simple ideological framework to achieve Sesel Pou Seselwa and to keep it that way. I do not need to be a faux intellectual or as supposedly sophisticated as you to make that argument. As a simple man, I know when someone is taking what belongs to me, and I know how to defend it no matter how arrogant and supposedly intellectual and sophisticated the Fabrike pretends to be.

Now that you Fabrike have been exposed, you will never pass yourself off as a real Seychellois ever again - who has won?

Anonymous said...

Well said,Chris,it is sad to not that the so called leaders of the seychelles government does not have brains nor backbone....what a shame.Michel himself he does not know if he is coming or going.At one point I really think that this guy regreat that he is a seychellois.No matter how far he runs for that matter he will always be a seychellois even if he treats all creoles as second grade citizen.Even if he degrades his own people with foreigners,he is in the end the laughing stock of the world around him and the european countries.
Ramadoss and all are just rats that escaped on cargo ships docked in the port to unload food.We need a very strong fumigation because they have been fed properly and now they are all fat,with fat cat salaries,mansions,casinos,all comercial activities in their names.Seychellois we should all wake up, if not we might end up like our neighbour Mauritius where the creoles has been displaced in their own country.Do we really want that to happen?

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous and All,

It has already happened. Creoles, Rasins and such likes have already been displaced in Seychelles. Firstly, FAR 'killed' all Rasin businesses that would not agree with his socialist/communist ideas. FAR expelled or made it hard for his opponents to survive in Seychelles. FAR controlled all lucrative business. FAR strengthened his SPPF party and it is believed that Ramadoss is only a proxy owner of lucrative businesses for SPPF. Seychelles had a brain drain after 5th June 1977. This is still happening today with the likes of Radegonne. It is sad when you see Seychellois Rasin attempting to be foreigeners in their beloved Seychelles, in order for them to pass for Fabrike.....Seychelles is at the crossroads...we need to decide if it will remain for the Fabrike or will it transfer back to Rasins ! Tonton

Anonymous said...

Dir zot mem TONTON!

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