Friday, February 5, 2010

The Seychelles Column - By Christopher Gill



Seychelles Becoming a Colony under Michel Administration
When you look around and take note of who is running the Seychelles today, under the James Alix Michel Administration, it does not take long to come to the conclusion that Seychelles is fast becoming a colony once again.
Since assuming office, Michel has systematically compromised our sovereignty as a Nation, by displacing Seselwa Rasin (real Seychellois citizens) of their right to participate in the running of their government and by importing foreigners to do jobs Seselwa Rasin’s could do with ease.
This is not the first time SPPF has brought foreigners to our shores to brutalize and oppress our Seychellois people. The Irish, Australians and French today, join the parade of foreigners that have propped up SPUP, SPPF and now P.P.   It all started with Tanzanian troops after the bloody coup d’etat of June 5th, 1977 and soon North Korean troops followed. The Tanzanians killed our people with bullets. These new generation foreign colonialist imported by Michel are now killing us at the purse strings, taking every cent from us let alone our opportunity to work. Seychellois suffer greatly today under Michel because he has failed to set the balance sheet of his government right in the first place and where as Minister of Finance for over a decade, he led Seychelles into bankruptcy and default of every loan imaginable.
En Moman Avek Prezidan (A Moment with the President) and Back to the Future
Every month, Mr. President sits on a winged leather seat chair with the SBC TV cameras and faces the People of Seychelles to give us his ideas on what he is doing to Seychelles. He makes appeals for us to “Koste” (come together) to more or less support him and keep him in power. Even the SBC reporters are starting to doubt him and they pose him questions he cannot answer forthrightly. 
Asked about the takeover of the prison by the army last week and the firing of the prison warden, he babbled on about Somali pirates and the fact that we will get foreign aid to assist us in rebuilding our prison system.  Soon we will have Irish prison wardens at the Montagne Posee prison guarding Somali pirates.  What a sham of a Presidency!
He blames the banks over high interest rates after reading about it in STAR Seychelles and forgets that Nouvobanq, Development Bank of Seychelles and the Savings Bank are all government-owned. He focuses on the future because he has nothing to offer us today, except more and more pain as he relegates Seychellois to their knees of colonial masters in key departments and offices.
Behind the presidential seat, a number of colonial-era governors and military attaches with feathers in plume hang on the wall, reminding us of the colonial era that Seychelles endured. Michel himself commissioned the paintings and had them hung on the walls of State House. We the People of Seychelles paid for this frivolous decoration of State House. How ironic that Michel with Rene took over the country in a bloody coup and told us that the reason was to remove the colonial lackeys from power! Shameful indeed and more lies that have caught up with this communist regime.
Today, it is all making sense and we now know why Michel kept the reminders of our colonial past hanging on the walls of State House and we footed the bill for his escapades with these cartoon characters memorialized in plastic art.
It would appear, little has changed with Mr. President James Michel at the helm.  We are ever more being run like a colony.
Let us look briefly, where he has taken us. Tomorrow, these foreign administrators employed by Mr. President will apply to become Citizens of Seychelles, along with their families.  They will make their way to the electoral roll as Seselwa Fabrike’s (made up Seychellois citizens), that will subjugate Seselwa Rasin (real Seychellois citizens) of their own inalienable rights in their own Country. They will become the nails in our coffin of third class citizens.
Mr. President will make his usual empty appeal for unity and peace and tranquillity, as he seals our fate and demise of a people and demise of our culture. As we and our children are forced to speak Creole in primary school, their hopes of being in charge of the Police, Financial Task Force, the Tax Office, Customs Office or even the Airport, will be foregone, because they will face foreign contract workers taking up all these important posts. As these contract workers come in gangs of Four (4) or Ten (10) at a time, hiring relatives and friends for a term in paradise, our people will be intimidated and brushed aside, because we remain polite, as our President ask us to. We suffer in “Unity” according to his will.
People of Seychelles, Seselwa Rasin of this potentially great country, we must draw a line.  Now, before it is too late.
Police Run By Irish Contract Workers
The Seychelles Police is run by Deputy Commissioner Neill Scully, a citizen of Ireland. Scully was imported to run NDEA drug task force. He was tasked with fighting the importation of drugs into Seychelles. Scully took over from Mr. Michael Fitzgerald who was a retired Commissioner of Police in Ireland. Fitzgerald worked as Deputy Commissioner for a period of six (6) months, before he just packed up and left without much notice. The press hardly covered the quick departure of Fitzgerald.
Scully referrers to our Commissioner of Police (Mr. Earnest Quatre) as a fine man.  Quatre seems to have been regulated to a symbolic figure in the force. Scully is reinforced with a number of other Irish officers including Mr. Liam Quinn. Before Fitzgerald, a Mr. Liam Coen was Deputy Commissioner.  However, he resigned and returned to Ireland after being found to have lied under oath to a Commission of Inquiry into the death of a father and son Abdul Rahim.  The enquiry was headed by Justice Fernando, a Sri Lankan Judge on the Court of Appeal, another one of our infamous Seselwa Fabrike.  Within the Police Force and those forced to leave by Michel are many capable Seselwa Rasin that could easily run the force, without the huge expenditures in salaries that are paid to the Irish, who by the way unemployed in their own country!
I have been told their salaries are SCR 124,000.00 per month each on average. If this is not correct, I ask that all the salaries and perks, which includes housing, fuel, cars, tickets to Europe, is made public. I will correct my presumption should the TRUTH be made public by the President himself or at least the Employment Minister.  Failing a full disclosure of salaries and perks, all Seselwa Rasin can reasonably assume that one Irishman is costing our country the tidy sum of SCR 124,000.00 per month, give or take a few thousands! 
What a travesty from a President who upon being bestowed power by former Albert Rene, vowed to work for the interests of all Seychellois.  Michel must have been referring to the “New imported Seychellois” which he prefers over his own countrymen!
Financial Intelligence Unit (FIU) Run by Irish Contract Workers
The Financial Intelligence Unit (FIU) is based at State House in President Michel’s office. It is headed by a team of Irishmen as well. If our country’s financial intelligence unit is controlled by foreigners, where is our dignity as a people?
Many Seychellois are highly capable and can do a better job than these bozo-import investigators that have brought great disrepute onto the good name of Seychelles, subjugating Seychellois to international indignation and contempt in the offshore business.
The Director of the FIU is another Irish named Mr. Declan Barber. Mr. Barber was responsible for freezing the funds of Dr. Georges Xiao’s company LXE Solar, totalling $8.5Million. Mr. Xiao, a US citizen, filed a case in New York District Court to retrieve the money transferred into his Barclay’s account in Seychelles. The Seychelles Government was accused of financial piracy over the matter, a claim which the Michel Administration had to deny in order to save face internationally. But the egg was already on our face, and the bozo circus show was already in play. The damage had already been done and is still being done today as the bad press spreads like a cancer to our offshore banking industry.  In the end, our Government had to “eat crow” as the old saying goes and return Mr. Xiao’s money and paid interest and other legal expenses as well.  Another one of Michel and the Irishmen failure!
Michel’s attempt to subjugate Seychelles to colonialism by masters from lands far away has backfired even on him. All this has taken place in his own office; or maybe I should refer to State House as the “Foreign Office”!
I have been advised that these Irish work on a commission basis. I ask the Michel Administration to disclose their salary arrangements. Make it public. Advise if they are paid a commission to ruin Seychelles reputation in the offshore financial sector. Advise if their pay includes housing, cars and fuel, let alone trips to visit the family back in Ireland. Surely there are capable Seychellois who can issue form letters to commercial banks asking for disclosure of information on a transaction entering the banking system.  It does not take a nuclear scientist to do so.  Possibly, even Michel could write such a letter!
Commissioner of Tax Office Run by Australian Contract Workers
Under Michel, even the collection of national revenue is now being driven by foreigners. The past head of the Revenue Authority was Steve Jardine, an Australian. He recently applied to become a citizen of Seychelles, and the SPPF of course granted him citizenship. He joins the list of Seselwa Fabrike’s that SPPF have created.
It is unacceptable, that a person should come to Seychelles as a contracted worker and then apply for citizenship of our Nation.  Meanwhile, Mr. Jardine is still enjoying the salary and perks of an expatriate worker.  Now would he stay in Seychelles if he earned a measly SCR 5,000 per month? Would he stay in Seychelles if Government did not provide him with housing, car and fuel allowances?
Nevertheless, after an unconfirmed rumour of a slight mishap with street ladies and of course the fact that he spent too many nights in Ramadoss’ casino, it is rumoured that Mr. Jardine was removed as Commissioner of Taxes. He may confirm or deny that allegation or claim the rumour to be true.
And here comes the Aussies to run our Tax Department
Soon after, Jardine was then replaced by Mr. Rene Nusse, another Australian citizen. While at least the Police have a figurehead Commissioner Quatre in place, the office of the Revenue Authority makes no fuss over the ham that Mr. Nusse is.
Under his orders most likely, they have posted Mr. Nusse picture at the top of their web site, wherein a Seselwa Rasin business can go to get a tax number.
Mr. Nusse is not a political figure. He is not the Minister of Finance, nor is he the President of the Republic. Why is his picture, used to represent a department of the Ministry of Finance, a ministry of the Government of Seychelles? Can any contract worker from overseas just walk into Seychelles, get to work on a contract, and place their face on a Seychelles Department that represents us as a People? How low can the Michel Administration go? Has this Administration no self-respect ? Does Michel have no boundaries when it comes to the dignity of the Seychellois People?
Where is your pride placed when you place an Australian on our website to collects all the revenue of the Nation?
To add insult to injury, Mr. Nusse imported his partner, as in love-partner, a Madame Thompson to the office. She has since been moved along as a consultant for the Minister of Finance. She has most likely replaced another foreign advisor there, Mr. Jean Maurice Parnet, another Mr. Michel Tretout import, to shore up a failing communist regime.
When Mr. Parnet realized he was helping a corrupt government, he too left, with many regrets for the assistance he provided such an infamous group. His last words to me on the eve of his departure was: “Mr. Gill, these people are too corrupt to be helped”.
These SPPF-PP’s have no dignity. They wreak shame upon the People of Seychelles. We have many, many qualified people who can do this paper pushing, systems management job at Tax and Finance.
If you need lessons on Adam Smith and the invisible hand running the economy and how that works, P.P., I can lend you a hand free of charge.  I will take no salary, no car, no fuel, no ticket on Air Seychelles.  As for you self professed, but unknowing, Fabian-communists-failures, you have all proven yourselves to be so over and over again!
From Australia to the French Connection – PUC Contract
We all cried in rage the day Phillip Morin, a highly qualified electrical-industrial engineer was ousted from PUC.  Mr. Morin loved his country, and he served his country faithfully as a damn good engineer for PUC.  Mr. Morin worked for peanuts, being paid under SCR 20,000.00 per month for a job that had no hours and one which was demanding. The Michel Government refused to invest in PUC, despite the call by Mr. Morin and others who understood the growing demands for more power and better water distribution facilities.
But Michel and his SPPF-P.P. smart-asses replaced this fine Seselwa Rasin professional with a group of French techno’s retired from Suez Group, a French energy production company.
This group of retirees has close ties to the former French Ambassador Michel Tretout. Mr. Tretout himself cut the deal to bring them into Seychelles with Michel’s support, to create work for PUC while he was still Ambassador. With work, the thinking went, money would flow, all that had to be done was pass the cost on to the consumer.  That is, the real Seychellois since all expatriate workers brought in by the President gets their utility bills paid for by the State.
It is unclear if Tretout had already obtained a Seychellois Passport, but speculation is rife that he has and the French press would like to know. If anyone can confirm this to me the free press in Paris and the Government of Mr. Sarkozy would be most grateful.  Already, we know that Mr. Tretout has interest in the Carrefour supermarket project now turned over to Casino Geant, and he even professed on SBC-TV in an interview prior to his departure that he would be back!
Meanwhile, the two year contract with these energy parasites at PUC is costing the Seychellois people some SCR 60 plus Million per annum or better yet, SCR 5 Million per month. Certainly a much larger sum than Mr. Morin’s measly SCR 20,000 per month salary. I might add, this is more money than the French ever earned as career engineers at Suez Group.
Now you know why your electricity rates are so high this year and will get higher next year. Michel cannot blame Ramkalawan or Volcere for that. Don’t blame me either. I have been carrying PUC on my back for years with unpaid easements now totalling over SCR 3 Million and counting as interest ticks.
As for poor Mr. Morin, he is now the Don Quixote of Seychelles, having been given a horse, a shield and a lance to go out and create windmills which would certainly destroy our pristine landscape forever.  Don’t forget, we already have the monstrosity going up at the ex-Tracking Station site, courtesy of a SCR 1 rupee gift of James Michel to his Arab friend. Another one of your legacy Michel, and a shameful one at that too!
To summarize the PUC debacle, we did not need French engineers to tell us that our generators have exceeded their life span Mr. President, and we certainly did not need desalination plants a la Mukesh Valabhji, another one of yours and Albert Rene’s failures.  Mr. Morin had told us that for 10 years already.  But you and your SPPF-P.P told Morin to keep them running, even though we were running our infrastructure to the graveyard. Now, you use French technos to run Seychellois into the grave with high electricity and water rates, with the French geeks running all the way to their banks with loads of our cash each month.
Shame on you Michel!
Judiciary a Sign of Failure by Michel
In the Judiciary, the Chief Justice is Ugandan. He is followed by an array of other Ugandans, Sri Lankans and so forth. Only Justice Renaud and now Justice Dodin are Seychellois. Mr. Brassel Adeline was made a magistrate recently, of course, after having been a keen SPPF-P.P. player for well over a decade!
It is unacceptable to me that a non-Seychellois Rasin should lead our Judiciary, a vital branch of Government for our Country. I understand that it is unacceptable to the Chief Justice himself that this so be the order of the day.
I salute his sensitivity and trust he will find a Seychellois replacement during his tenure. It is not hard with the precedence he has established with his pay scale.
Salaries are disproportionate in the Judiciary. Ex-pats are paid more than Seychellois. The Chief Justice, I understand has a contract of SCR 67,000.00 per month. This is unacceptable.  All Justices must be paid salaries that are commensurate with the post they occupy. Salaries of Justices must be increased, to meet expectations of Seselwa Rasin lawyers, to entice them to take up the challenge of the Courts. We have a shortage of applicants only when the pay is an insult to the prestige, education and ability of the applicant. If you pay peanuts, you will get monkey’s, P.P.
If Michel can pay a couple of French Techno’s SCR 124 Million for a 2-year contract at PUC, surely our Seselwa Judges can be paid more and we can allow the foreign judges to go home and serve their country as they always tell us they want to do.
Again, shame on your Michel for laying the luxurious red carpet for our foreign workers while relegating your own people to the coal pits of hell.  And you dare speak of a welfare state in your glorified presidential press meeting.  Just remember it is you who have created this welfare state for your people when we could be working hard and contributing towards the growth and success of our beloved Seychelles. Instead, your treat us like monkeys and feed us bananas while you treat your French, Australian, Irish and Arab friends to champagne and caviar.  Shame on you Michel for being a traitor to your own people.
Sesel Pou Seselwa Principle
If you come to Seychelles as a contracted worker, then you must leave Seychelles as an end of term contracted worker, unless your contract is renewed. Under no circumstance should a contracted worker be allowed to become a citizen of Seychelles, unless through marriage to a Seychellois citizen. In the case of marriage, I would urge that the marriage be ongoing for 10 years before an applicant is able to apply for citizenship and not five years as is the case today. We need to protect our Rasin men and women who become victims of foreigners who marry with the hidden agenda to be granted rights to stay in Seychelles, and then quickly file for a divorce once they have received the coveted passport and citizenship. Even Europe and the USA have tightened their citizenship requirements.  In Seychelles, the SPPF-P.P. plays the fiddle to allow foreigners to become citizens so that they can remain in power.  Once again Michel, let me remind you of Albert Rene’s slogan of the 1960’s.  “Sesel Pou Seselwa” (Seychelles is for Seychellois)!
A Final Message To Mr. President
We do not need all these foreigners mucking about and costing us grossly disproportionate salaries that do not go with what they deliver. Apart from high salaries come cars, fuel, houses, school fees, expense accounts and airline tickets to see loved ones in their homeland whenever they are homesick. When you import foreigners to do work Seychellois can do, you import arrogance, you import mistreatment of your own people, and you make the Seychellois Rasin feel that they are less desirable in your eyes, Mr. President.
I therefore ask the Michel Administration to disclose all salaries being paid to all the foreigners in our country, from Mr. Nusse and his girlfriend to all the Irish Liams in Seychelles. Advise all perks as well, including housing, cars, school fees, fuel, airline tickets and so forth. Let the People of Seychelles become fully aware of the real costs of these foreigners who are not better qualified than Seychellois to do those jobs. 
And Mr. Michel, in closing, let me remind you that we are a REPUBLIC and not a COLONY.  We the Seychellois people are not lackeys of any foreign masters, be it French, Arabs, Australians or Irish.  Lest you have forgotten, I wish to remind you that:
Seychelles is for Seychellois.
May God Bless Seychelles and All Freedom Loving Seychellois!
Christopher Gill

157 comments:

Seselwa4Ever said...

Another master piece from Christopher. Clearly we are all 2nd class citizens in our own beloved country. Shame on SPPF. I feel sorry for the poor seychellois working hard to make ends meet. paying ridiculously expensive slow internet connections to keep in touch with beloved families abroad. our country is a laughing stock to the rest of the world. such a small country full of resources and yet SPPF have miserably failed us seselwa with their barmy laws and ridiculous and policies. I sincerely hope there is a change in government in our country. I pray REAL Democracy, freedom from the chains and shackles our country is locked with.

Anonymous said...

But even you Mr. Gill, avoid writing the truth of what is realy happening in the Seychelles and the offshore industry... and the connection to...

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Anonymous said...

If you are going to write defamatory comments about indiviudals perhaps find out their correct names and interview them to ensure that your information is correct - instead of trying to propagate suspicion, mistrust and hostility toward foreigners - most who are here to help the Seychellois, not harm them!

Leonard Francis Gill said...

To Anonymous:

Many foreigners are in Seychelles to help Seychelles and themselves. That is true.

My brother Christopher's point is that if they have come to "help" us only on condition that they gain a Seychelles passport and fatter salaries and perks than a Seychellois Rasin who can do the same job, we prefer you provide your "help" somewhere else. This is the point regardless of whether your foreign names are spelled correctly.

Moreover, since my brother has written the absolute truth this cannot be a defamation. If the truth offends you so be it. If you must be offended for us to defend Rasin interest, we will ofend you. We are willing to accept that price. On the other hand, if Chris has made a false statement and you are aware of it, why don't you describe what is false? After all you are protected by your anonymity. The fact that you have not described what you believe is false leads me to believe you are in fact offended by the truth of what has been written.

Our country and our control over our country should not be for sale to foreigners and Fabrike who provide "help" only if it is at the cost of controlling our country, demeaning Rasin or getting an unfair advantage over Rasin in our own country.

My father fought for and lived for "Seychelles Pour Seychellois". Foreign help that undermines this ideology is not welcomed.

Anonymous said...

The attack on all foreigners in this article is unwarrented and bordering on inciting racial hatred. It shows a very ugly side to a very beautiful country. I am positive the Mr Gill has not interviewed any of the foreigners he is talking about and as such, his article is nothing more than guess work.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Anonymous:

Christopher is not attacking any particular race of foreigner. So to say Rasin-ism incites racial hatred betrays a racist mentality by the accuser. What race do you think he was attacking? I have read Chris's article several times and not once does he single out a particular race to be attacked.

The truth is Rasin-ism contests any race, religion, color, nationality, whether Chinese, European, American, French, Irish Australian or anyone else who "help" us only if we forfeit to them our dignity, citizenship and political control over our country. Rasin-ism is nationalism.

This is the banner under which all Seychellois united to take out country to independence in 1976. It is the banner under which my late father joined with Rene as a founding member of the SPUP to make "Seychelles Pour Seychellois". This is the banner of Rasin-ism.

You are also wrong that we are attacking "all foreigners". That is a misrepresentation of Rasin-ism. Rasin-ism only contests those foreigners who have claimed citizenship in our country, who have bribed our leaders, who have been given preferential jobs in Seychelles for fatter salaries and perks not available to Seychellois Rasin, who have excluded us Rasin from our beaches and islands, who have bribed their way to preferential business terms and prime land for SR1 not available to Rasin in our own country and who have bribed the PP to be above the law. If you are not one of these foreigners you are welcome to enjoy our beautiful country to your heart's content, and no one has ever said anything different. Exemplary unmatched Seychellois hospitality to our guests is also Rasin-ism.

It is not who you are that we attack but what you do or have done in our country that we attack. If you have done nothing reprehensible in Seychelles, why do you feel attacked? You have nothing to fear. The converse is also true. If you have acted and are acting reprehensibly in our country, in a way you would not tolerate in your own, you will not be allowed to continue uncontested with your conduct. This too is Rasin-ism.

Anonymous said...

For a more rounded discussion, lets talk about other types of foreign workers in the Seychelles such as the Philipino and Indian. Surely there are more of them doing jobs that the average Seychellois could do than the Irish, Australians etc??? Perhaps the Phillipinos and Indians are the real second class citizens here, and yet they would only come to the Seychelles, one would presume, if they could earn more in ths country than in their homelands...

Anonymous said...

Are all Seychellois bigots and racially prejudiced - surely not.
I’m planning my next holiday and was considering Seychelles.
Is it still safe for foreigners? I think I will reconsider...

Anonymous said...

No annon, you must come - the you can decide whether or not to be one of the apparent 95% of tourist who doesn't return.

"The Seychelles for the Seychellois" be careful what you wish for. Keep going with the bigotted, racist batter and you could lose all your foreign workers (at least the allegedly 'hgh paid ones"), all the tourists and then shortly after aid money and foreign interest in a country of 90,000(?)

What an interesting sociological experiment for into what then happens to an already very economically weak country. Off to get some pop corn now.

Anonymous said...

I think there is some confusion and frustration coming from this piece from Mr. Gill, that can be misinterpreted.

Of course the Seychellois (Rasin as he refers to) are becoming second class in their own country. This is true- no debate.

What is also true is that there are other nationalities benefitting from the failures of us Seychellois as a nation.

Not all foreigners are bad or here to make money , rob us dry and leave. Some, and i would presume a good majority are here for a better life. This is the same for our citizen who go to live abroad in the UK, the USA, Europe and Australia. We can not persecute or single out foreigners in Seychelles in general, when we do the same in their country.

What happens when we force these individuals to their home and they tell their friends and family that we Seychellois do not welcome foreigners? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of our aims in tourism? This is not healthy for us and is a real danger.

However, what we can do is point to the root cause of this situation, that is causing us frustration and a feeling of neglect/abuse.

It is the government.

Let us identify the real reason we are in this mess. Making foreigners upset and attacking them in a certain way, I do not feel is the right way to go about it.

Let's make our feelings heard now, and continuous until when election comes. Let's show some understanding for the situation.

I have been there in the past when a foriegner was doing a job I know I could do. After reflection, he was taking an opportunity given to him. It hurt me at the time. But I'm sure most of us would do the same if it meant a better life for us. However, it doesn't mean we should tollerate corruption and other forms of evil.

What can we do to make us better?

At the end of the day, foreigners are human like us. Some are here for honest reasons, and others not. Let's not mix the bigger issue. I feel the frustration and have been a victim of it as well.

B

Anonymous said...

When economic hardship is experienced, there will always be some unscrupulous individuals that will exploit this for their own cheap political point scoring. It is easy to attack a small demographic and appoint blame. Today you promote ethnic intolerance and promote racial hatred; will it be religious prejudices next. Shame on you Mr. Gill!

Anonymous said...

I have been reading this blog for over a year, and have appreciated the discussions and point of views from Gill and all the other bloggers. It is good to see freedom of expression at work.

In the current discussion of Sesel pou Seselwa, I finally decided to send in my comments because I believe a lot of bloggers are either not living in Seychelles and thus do not understand the severity of the "foreign" invasion of our country and the impact that these foreigners are having on our country, or they simply do not understand Gill's message that foreigners are welcome to come to Seychelles to work, but should not be allowed to buy passports and thus have the right to vote. A right which distorts the votes in our small country and allows the SPPF to win and remain in power.

Lest we forget, and Gill has just reminded us, Albert Rene mottos in the 1960's was "Sesel pou Seselwa" and "Yankees go home".

In summary, the Seychellois people are now very well aware that we have become second-class citizens in our own country, and that while there is room for foreigners to work in Seychelles, there is no room to allow those workers to become citizens. Unless of course they go through the legal channels or they marry a Seychellois citizen.

Continued....

Anonymous said...

Christopher, in the 1940s it was the Jews that were blamed for all that was wrong in Germany. Your political note is repugnant in both its core message as well as its unethical inaccuracies. Have you picked your favourite ethnic group yet – perhaps grow a little moustache, try on the knickerbockers and get that comb over happening. Apart from this, you do not make economic sense.

Anonymous said...

Continued from above...

I believe the argument that foreigners are not welcome is not part of Mr. Gill's point of view. Seychelles has welcomed visitors since its discovery and the Seychellois people are probably the most welcoming and friendly people in the world. I speak as a Seselwa here and can state clearly that all my family and friends love to have overseas visitors and we are all friendly to tourists. However, with the Irish running our Police, with the Australians running our Tax Department, with the French taking over PUC, with the Arabs doing whatever they want to do at La Misere, Barbarons, Plantation Club, Praslin etc. with carte blanche from James Michel and no respect for our institutions, and not paying taxes on imported goods, without going through the legal processes like we all do, and without getting planning permissions, I have to agree with Gill that enough is enough. James Michel and SPPF or Lepep Party has sold us out. We need to take our country back one way or another. And the only way is through the ballot box and not through guns and bullets like Albert and Michel did. But if these new foreigner Seychelles passport holders are allowed to vote, then we may never get the opportunity to win and remove the SPPF from power. Again, I support Gill here because his argument is correct and we need to stop these so-called new Seychellois passport holders from voting, as they have taken our rights away from us. Gill never said that he is against foreigners. He said that he is against foreigners coming to SEychelles, paying off SPPF Ministers and other high SPPF officials, getting all types of concessions, and then getting or buying a passport. For that, I will support Gill 100%.

One last point. I seriously believe that James Michel has very little gray matter between the ears. Either he is an idiot or seriously stupid. While I have never voted for Albert Rene because of his hand in the coup d'etat and the needless death of Seychellois citizens (yes, the blood is on his hands and that of James Michel), Albert Rene never sold Seychelles to foreigners. I think he took calculated risks with individuals like Mario Ricci, Ramados and other dark individuals and of course he and the SPPF benefited and got something out of these people. But Seychellois never felt like second or third class citizens in their own country. One never felt like the Arabs or the SOuth Africans own our country. One never saw the arrogance of Frenchmen or Australians who now feel that we (Seselwa) are stupid and that is the reason why they are here. This my friends, is the reason why I agree with Gill. Today in Seychelles, we have been relegated as citizens. We are no longer a proud people because we are number 2 or number 3. Foreigners, be it Australians, French, South Africans, Irish, Indians, Chinese and the Arabs have become number one, courtesy of no other than James Michel.

Thank you and I hope that all bloggers on this site continue to support this process. Let us get more people to read or comment on the site as it is important for our democracy.

The Proud Seychelloise

Anonymous said...

To 'B':

I am glad to read that you stated the fact that we must not put all foreigners in one basket.

We forget that many of thm are in Seychelles for the same reasons many of us Seychellois left our country in search of a better future and possibilities elsewhere, for instance Australia, UK, France and even USA where Christopher Gill himself spent many years growing up. I myself have spent most of my childhood not ot mention adulthood outside Seychelles, but remain Seychellois at heart despite obtaining anothere nationality.

Many Seychellois have dual citizenships, myself, France Albert Rene and last but not least the foremost critic of 'Fabrikes', Christopher Gill who is a US passport-holder.

I don't think Gill or any of us for that matter would appreciate it if the governments of our respective second countries would start removing our citizenships just because we got it through our parents marrying a national of that country or by living there more than the x-number of years required so why should we as a nation start hacking on those who obtained theirs legally in our nation?

I despise of the EDA and the selling of passports, but it was legal at the time and one cannot be punished for something done legally. Removing those passports would be like introducing a new law and punishing every felon who had broken that very law before it became illegal. Surely a lawyer like Chris Gill should know the legal complexity of such a process.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

Hello Proud Seychelloise,

I for one do see Gill's point about welcoming foreigners to work and contribute to our society, but at the same time is against the selling of passports to whoever has enough to cough up.

What I disagree with is Gill's proposal to literally kick out all those who have purchased passports, i.e those classified as 'Fabrike'. I was and am totally disgusted by the EDA and what it sood for, but going back and punishing not only the purchaser, but also their kin(especially children) is to my opinion wrong and would be as wrong as punishing the children of SS officers for the crimes performed by their fathers.

Done is done, but a change of law to make sure that NOBODY can ever buy a Seychelles passport again is clearly needed. Citizenship must be earned and worked hard for, not purchased. A purchased citizenship is like a purchased medal or trophy.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

As I see it the point here is very clear.

You all need to get over the scars of yesterday and start thinking positively and strategically toward building a tomorrow.

It is too easy to blame others for your misfortunes, far harder to take responsibility and use the brain to work out meaningful and useful strategies for a bright future.

Stop being so suspicious and get with the new century.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone who has responded actually tried to buy a Seychellese passport??? I am trying legitimately to get residency - and trust me, that is very difficult. Citizenship is another kettle of fish. Residenc does not give me automatice rights to anything in the Seychelles except not to have to leave every few months! I think the passport buyers you mention are few and far between - there is a big white elephant in the room, I just can't see it from where I sit!

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Foreigners who purchased Seychellois passports have engaged in an immoral act that caused and continue to cause injury to Rasin and Rasin interests. This act was wrong and must be redressed. This is similar to individuals who are tried and punished for war crimes even though their actions were legal at the time they perpetrated it. For example the US executed several Japanese military officers after WWII for actions which were not only legal but encouraged by their governments.

So Patrick X's position that to revoke Fabrike passports is an ex post facto application of the law that cannot be done, does not hold. In the face of egregious conduct causing general harm, we Rasin have the legal precedent to revoke Fabrike passports and citizenship and to deport them if they vote in our elections. This must be done at all costs.

The next point Patrick X makes is that even if a Fabrike bought his or her passport, gave bribes for it and received favorable business concessions, his or her children should be allowed to keep that ill gotten citizenship. This is tantamount to arguing that an innocent purchaser of a stolen Renoir painting should be allowed to keep it. We all know that is not the law. Even if a stolen painting, or anything else stolen for that matter, is passed on multiple times over many decades, generally once found, it must be returned to its rightful owner. Time does not cure the crime. This is especially the case with Fabrike voters who are continuing to inflict harm on our country.

All Fabrike citizenship is ill gotten and must be revoked and if they vote in our elections they must be deported.

While all foreigners are welcome in our country whether they are workers or visitors, whether they are Indian of Australian. If these foreigners demand citizenship of our country as the price of their visit we prefer they go elsewhere. To the foreigner who now says because Rasin are protecting Rasin interests he or she will go elsewhere, I agree, that would be best for both sides. Please visit elsewhere where they are willing to give you citizenship, we prefer to keep ours for Rasin and Rasin only. Our country is not for sale to you for the price of your hotel room. On the other hand you are welcome to visit our extraordinarily beautiful country if you respect Rasin rights and sovereignty over our country.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

B:

I sense in your comment a genuine struggle that all Rasin, including me, and I am sure my brother Chris, goes through when we contest actions by foreigners in our country. On the one hand you know that the SPPF/PP government gave a job to a foreigner, probably a Fabrike, to do work you could have done better for less money and perks. On the other hand you do not want to forcefully enforce your rights if it means offending the foreigner.

Since childhood, Rasin culture teaches us to be generous, kind and welcoming to foreigners whom we were told by our elders are our guests, in our country or in our homes. So we remain timid in the face of sometimes grave insults and affronts to our national and personal dignity and sovereignty.

Take for instance some of the comments posted here by foreigners who have taken jobs that Rasin can do. As you can see from their comments they and their PP collaborators are not squeamish to protect that job, their ill gotten passports and their business concessions. There is no level they will not lower themselves in order to defend what they have taken from you and intend to take from you. There is no dishonest false argument they will not advance to keep what they have and take what you have or should have like that job you referenced.

You too must defend your rights with equal or more fervor if you want to keep your country. There is no room for timidity or politeness in that effort. We Rasin must defend our interests with even more fervor and militancy than the Fabrike if we are to keep our country. The Fabrike and their PP collaborators mean business and so should we Rasin Patriots mean business.

In this case the Fabrike are taking and have taken our country. They do not consider themselves as guests in our country. They believe our country belongs to them. They believe that we Rasin are to be abused and derided because we are weak and timid since we have allowed them to take our country from us. So they are not guests like we have been brought up to treat with great deference and respect. They are invaders and must be treated as such.

You state that the real problem is Michel who betrayed us. I agree. But Michel relies on these Fabrike to keep him in power, so he the the Master Collaborator and traitor, can keep selling or giving Fabrike our passports, our jobs and our land for Sr1 and the Fabrike in turn vote to keep him and his collaborator clique in power. So by taking away Michel's support base who are the Fabrike, we are strongly tackling the Michel dictatorship itself that you have correctly identified as the root of the problem.

But more importantly, we are putting all Fabrike on notice that we no longer consider them guests in our country - we consider them to be invaders whose right to vote must be annulled at all costs. If they vote, when a Rasin government comes to power, we will deport all those who voted in any of our future elections - no exceptions; on this point we Rasin mean business. You B must steel your nerves and muster your courage and join us in that effort.

Anonymous said...

Hi Leonard,

Thanks for the comments and advice.

I understand the point you are making and I fully agree that there needs to be a change. I too can feel your frustration and determination.

Seychelles as an island state is very dependent on foreign nations. This is something that both you and I did not create. We inherited it from geography and the history created by Rene/Michel. The day will come when we will eventually win at an election- as nothing is forever- and have a chance to create our own beautiful future. When that day comes, we need to be honest and fair. We should examine the process by which we as a nation have allowed foreigners to enter our shores and corrupted our hospitality by gaining a passport and using it for illegal interests. We can then act upon correcting and preventing this situation from occurring again. Please do note, that I am against the selling of passports, 100%. I am sure we will also look at other areas that have tarnished our people.

I refer to us as a “nation“ in examining the process (as mentioned above) because I feel that this Nation really does belong to us and not Michel/Rene or any of their other cronies with no moral values, respect or scruples. Ultimately, we need to take responsibility and be accountable for Seychelles in every way.

During our process, we will also need to examine the positives of having foreigners in Seychelles, who have come through legitimate means. How can we promote quality foreign investment in Seychelles, to contribute to our growth. Let us not forget that the origins of the Seychellois people as a nation are a mixture of various races, dating back many years.

As an island state of approx 90,000 people, I agree that we need to be more vocal and less timid. Our country is smaller than the size of most towns or districts on a global level. How long can we as a nation, tolerate being made second class citizens by our own brothers and sisters? Evidently, they do not have our nor the countries interest at heart. Also, evident, we need to have action before it is too late.

Although you say that I am timid, but if I were given the opportunity to self-analyze myself, I would rather say that I am objective and professional.
This is something no institution, nationality or government will ever take away from me. Believe in that I have very strong principles, as I am sure that you too have positive ones as well.

What I am saying is that we must be strategic, mature, determined and diplomatic in today’s context.

B

Leonard Francis Gill said...

B:

Thank you for your well stated and honest comments.

Like you, I too was timid. I did not start out with the lion's courage shown by my brother Christopher in confronting Rene, to his face, at the Consitutional Commission in 1991, where he told Rene on national TV that Rene has been the single source of the largest amount of suffering that one Seychellois has ever inflicted on other Seychellois. Rene is reputed to have brutally tortured and murdered many Seychellois for lesser insults made in private, including the later reputed or rumored torture and murder of a young Seychellois who simply had an illicit love affair with his daughter. So I speak to you from experience when I ask you to muster your courage to match the strong principles you have that I sense from your comments.

My courage came to me after the passing of my father and the sense of betrayal of his principles by Rene/Michel to the Fabrike. The betrayal of the idea of "Seychelles Pour Seychellois" that my father, Rene and Philibert Loizeau started the SPUP to achieve.

In most cases I agree that diplomacy and careful calculation is the best course of action. But we are losing our counry as I write these words to you. We have no time for gentle diplomatic approaches or elaborate strategies.

The PP is selling out our country to Fabrike right under our feet. As Patrick X is fond of reminding us; politicians now in Seychelles need Fabrike to obtain or keep power so he argues the Fabrike should not be offended and our leaders must tailor their approach to obtain votes from the IOT Fabrike created by the PP.

Because there is no time for a diplomatic solution to the Fabrike problem we must move forward with a decisive one. Your help is needed and critical in that effort.

Anonymous said...

Francis,

I am in no way saying that the Fabrike's must not be offended. I am mereley saying that one cannot start removing citizenships obtained legally some time back, but:

One can strip them off for all their special rights and priveleges given to them by the PL(then SPPF). Make these normal Seychellois with the right same rights as any man on the street.

And while we're in the process, we can start by taking away MNA special priveleges like duty free vehicles etc. What say you?

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

I find some of the comments on this thread infuriating because of their arrogance, ignorance, infantile and ill thought logic.

It would seem to me that there is no issue with foreign workers coming to the Seychelles as long as they earn less than Seychellois and do the jobs that Seychellois believe are beneath them to do. Then, the sentiment displayed is that even these people should not, after years of serving the Master Rasin race, recieve the privilege of being viewed as citizens and obtain the full rights that attach to this status.

The many Seychellois who have gained citizenship and employment abroad are fortunate to live in countries where foreigners are appreciated for their ability to bring new ways of doing things, new views and values to the country. Instead of focusing on the negatives of foreign workers, it would be better to embrace the benefits that they bring with them to this country.

In fact the attacks on certain races of foreign workers and the absurd assertion that they buy citizenship smells to me of a dirty political tactic. Should the current ruling party remain in power after the next election blame can be showered on the foreigners for voting (against a party that doesn't want them here) rather than the opposition party taking at good look at itself and its policies. Divide and conqueur, blame the Gran Blancs' for all that is wrong and then no one will see that the opposition lost an election because people were tiring of hearing what is wrong without hearing or seeing evidence of stategies that are going to make a difference to the people.

Send people messages of hope not hatred.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

Fabrike are Fabrike however they received their citizenship. They cannot keep it. That does not mean they cannot stay in Seychelles and work and run their businesses and raise their families like everyone else on an equal footing as everyone else. But they have no right to participate in the political affairs of our country. They have no right to be in our police force. They have no right to be Chief Justice. If they vote in our future elections they should be deported. This is non-negotiable.

This is tne "Seychelles Pour Seychellois" philosophy that united us and under which banner we became independent. Rene and Michel betrayed that ideology and we must now make it right.

Insofar as special privileges for MNA I stand with you Patick X. Our MNAs should not receive extraordinary perks and raises while our country is bankrupt. This is a robbery of Rasin resources that should go towards developing our country. But this is a small issue that a Rasin government can fix once we handle the bigger issue of the PP sell out to Fabrike and PP fraudulent voters.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

To Anonymous:

You describe our discussions about Fabrike rights as infantile and arrogant but yet you have not taken the time to read previous comments I and others have posted to fully understand our position before engaging in personal insults. As a result, who is infantile, you or us? Who is arrogant you or us Rasin Patriots?

While this discussion may be infanitle to you, it is not to us. Fabrike arrogance and the "special" rights they have acquired for themselves in our country from corrupt PP leaders is a matter of grave seriousness to us and not at all infantile or arrogant.

It was our desire to obtain an independent Seychelles under the banner of "Seychelles Pour Seychellois" that my father and many others made great sacrifices fighting against British colonial rule. We do not consider it infantile to finish the fight for a Seychelles that belongs to us Rasin rather than to Fabrike. We did not fight against British colonial rule to establish "Seychelles Pour Seychellois" in order to succumb to neo-colonial domination by Fabrike.

You say we need to appreciate the value of foreign workers in Seychelles. We greatly appreciate the value of foreign workers and agree that we need their help to do work we Rasin do not want to do or cannot do. And, for those foreign workers that we do need, you should not come to our country to work with the expectation of becoming a citizen of our country. When your work is done you must go home. If you want to stay you are welcome, but not as a citizen - that is reserved solely for Seselwa Rasin. If these conditions are too harsh for you, then please find work elsewhere. That way neither of us will be disappointed.

We will not sell you our country or pay you more than a Rasin for work a Rasin will or can do. If you find that position too harsh to accept then please find work elsewhere.

You say we are blaming the Grand Blanc for opposition shortcomings. That is false. This strategy of dividing us Rasin was a Rene strategy not a Rasin strategy. Under Seselwa Rasin-ism the so called Grand Blanc are Rasin. Whatever injustices they may have perpetrated before Independence was forgotten and forgiven at Independence, this was the agreement between all of us that Rene and Michel betrayed.

We became independent as a unified people. So I reject your effort to make a racist division between and within us Rasin by distinguishing one Rasin as Grand Blanc and another as not - we are one people; period. Rasin come in all colors. So don't use your racist classifications to divide us. It will not work.

Finally you raise issues of Seyhellois working and obtaining citizenship overseas. What other countries do to promote their interests is not our concern. Whatever they decide is in their best interests we Seyhcellois will have to live by those rules - just like we Seychellois had to live by the white only Australian immigration policy. We are concerned about our country. In our country Fabrike citizenship must go and Rasin rights must be supreme.

Anonymous said...

Allow me a short reply so I can get back to my children.

Our Government must be run by Seychellois -Rasin, and not import expats from any land. This is why we sought Independence.

There are 30,000 Seychellois overseas of great ability that are never considered for a vote or a job.

The "Sesel Pou Seselwa" political philosophy is not a race based philosophy. Seselwa -Rasins are from every race. We are an ethnic grouping born out of Independence on June 29th, 1976. Hence the accusations of referring me to being like Hitler and being a bigot are wholly unfounded and are personal attacks in nature, that do not help generate greater understanding or respectacross the socio- spectrum.

The philopshy's objective is to simple restore Seselwa Rasins, back to being first class citizens in their own country.

As you know, along the way, SPPF now P.P. mported foreigners tohelp them stay in power.

Michel has crossed the reubicon of course. Soon Irish and Australians expats will be doing the trash collection as well.

Now, to place our people where they should be in their own coutnry, our government must be run by our own people at all managerial levels.That is simple enough. It is done in every country of the free world.

Seychelles will not be an exception.

Hence, where an Irish Citizen is running the Police station,under our principles, a Seselwa Rasin should have that post if he can do the job.

In the case of Naill Scully and his gang from Ireland, there are many, many Seselwa that can do this job. Unfortunately, many have been fired.

Michel should simply swallow some pride and re hire them as he has done with EX-Superintendent Tirant to run the Prisons.

In the Revenue Authority, Where Mr. Rene Nusse leads, there is no excuse to have Austalian running the show, as with Customs at the Port of Seychelles, run by Fiona Powell and at the International Airport.

This is simply not acceptable.

These individuals are free to apply for work in the business sector, but they must not maintain posts in Government of Seychelles wherein the work they do can easily, with one eye closed, and one hand tied behind their backs.... be done by Seychellois- Rasin.

The most exaggerated case of unneeded foreign imports is PUC for 12 men on a 124 Million contract, doing the job of one little Philip Morin with the assistance of Mr. Joel Valmont, another Seselwa -Rasin.

This I am sorry to say, is unacceptable to me and mnay Seselwa Rasin.

Seselwa Rasin, thank you for your support that allows me to defend our heritage.But I ask all Seselwa Rasin to log on, and defend your place in your country NOW!

The comments placed on this site over the weekend is testimony to the problem we face and the challenge brought upon us by James Michel and P.P.

Seselwa Fabrike's and all you contracted workers with visions of Citizenship after your contract term, I am sorry, but the time has come, wherein your welcome has been overstayed and our politeness has been interpreted to be a weakness by yourself.

Please be gracious enough to use your energyto contribute to the development of your own country, if you can find a job there.

In Seychelles, we will solve our own problems. "Sesel Pou Seselwa"!

Refering to White Elephant comments, I see no reason why you should not be granted a residency permit if you want to take break and enjoy the Seychelles.

However, they are making you painfully suffer so that you will come around and ask for a passport. That is how its done, unless you offer an envelope and ask for quick service.

Visitors to Seychelles are always welcome. They are a vital part of our economy. We are most welcoming to visitors, but we do draw a line when they start running our government or course.

Have Good Weekend

Christopher Gill

Anonymous said...

To Francis:

The way I understand your last reply(the one addressed to me) you find it totally ok to let the Fabrikes stay in Seychelles provided that they are ok with giving up their Fabrike citizenship. Did I understand you correctly?

If so, it would be like my new country of adoption coming to me and saying 'Mr X, we want you to give up your citizenship and your right to vote, but you are welcome to pay taxes, work for us(as inferiors) and of course this also applies to the rest of your family!'

I can tell you here and now that it would trigger off a national and not least an international scandal of a magnitude close to the happenings of Germany in the 1930s. You may call it Rasinism, but I can garuantee you that the international community would cal lit pure and utter racism even though it it will not necessarily have anything to do with race.

I really cannot believe that you and your brother Chris are serious about this. And if you really are, then I'm sorry to say that you have lost just about every bit of respect and support from my behalf and probably from just about every intellectual Seychellois both home and abroad. What you two are saying is at the same level at the KK were back in the old days(and some still are today), i.e that blacks are ok to have around as long as they work, keep quiet and don't have the right to vote.

EDA Fabrikes are political hot potatoes that need to be handled with insulated gloves. You two are about to get your palms scorched.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

Patrick X, as we say in creole: Al fer fout couyon.

You would not support anything Gill said because you have proven that you are a hard core SPPF who has been brainwashed. You are a pathetic SPFF sympathiser who will never see the light.

I have read this blog and comments carefully and somehow, you have managed to see everything different than most other people on this blog. You simply DO NOT GET IT.

Have you ever gone to Dubai? Do you see the Government of UAE give citizenship to all the foreigners working there? Do you think the Emiratis want to work in restaurants like a Filipino for $150 per month? Why should you expect a Seychellois to work for $250 per month when a foreigner doing the same job gets $1500 per month plus housing, schooling for kids at International School and overseas tickets? All courtesy of James Michel and SPPF. You obviously do not understand the situation in Seychelles today and live in your own SPPF world.

Gill and other bloggers have made it clear that foreigners are welcome into Seychelles, but they must abide by our laws and also should not have the right to vote, let alone buy a passport. I am in agreement with this philosophy and will support Gill and DP or SNP if they run with this motto. Michel has definitely forgotten the Seychellois people will do anything to sell his people out while encouraging foreigners to take on positions that could easily be held by Seychellois.

So please, if you do not understand the situation in Seychelles and the points made on this blog, please go find something else to do with your time. And continue to give your vote to this bunch of SPPF murderers and traitors who have sold out our country to idiots from Ireland, Australia and other countries.

Anonymous said...

“Hail Gill”, on reflection, it has a nice ring to it. When do we start persecuting in earnest? What about getting our youth involved? Do we get shinny uniforms with a lot of flags and banners? Lead us Mr Gill.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

My brother and I are dead serious about our position that Seychelles is for Seselwa Rasin and not for Fabrike. We disagree with your position that Seychelles belong to the Fabrike or they have any claim to being Seychellois as a "new citizen". In short you are a Fabrike collaborator and we are Seselwa Rasin Patriots.

You have no problem selling out our country to Fabrike and believe that you can instill fear in us to deter us from Seselwa Rasin-ism by not so veiled threats of retaliation from EDA PP Fabrike whom you know are powerful ruthless criminal friends of the PP who can do us harm. We are not intimidated by your PP tactics or your EDA Fabrike.

What we are saying is that the PP cannot sell out our country to Fabrike to keep them in power. Fabrike cannot have our country - that is non-negotiable. If your PP friends are counting on our fear of offending foreigners or their criminal EDA Fabrike friends to keep us from reclaiming our country from the Fabrike so they can stay in power indefinitely, they should reconsider. We Rasin Patriots like my Dad, Rene and Philibert Loizeau who, when they started the SPUP, were not afraid to say "Seychelles for Seychellois" in the early 60's all the way to independence; we too now are not afraid to say Sesel for Seselwa Rasin. Rene and Michel have betrayed these ideals.

When Ghandi told the British they had to go home, they called him a racist agitator. When Kwameh Nkrumah said the British had to leave Ghana and that Africa was for Africans they called him a racist agitator. When Amilcar Cabral told the Portuguese he wanted Guinea Bissau to be for Guineans they called him a racist agitator. When Jomo Kenyata said Africa was for Africans they called him a racist agitator. Those labels are tools of foreign imperialists and colonialist, their collaborators and sympathizers. You seem to fall into that category.

Yes that is correct. We have no problem with any foreigner staying in Seychelles under a work permit, but they are not entitled to call themselves a Seychellois and to be citizens of our country and vote in our elections. Voting in our election is reserved for those persons who were Seychellois at independence and their decedents and their naturalized spouses.

If you are willing to sell out our country, my brother and I, and many thousands of other Seychellois are not. So if you do not respect us because of our Rasin-ism ideology we do not need your respect or do we seek it. We will seek if from other like minded Seselwa Rasin Patriots who love their country and will defend their right to own and control it and to retake it from the Fabrike.

However, even if you are a Fabrike sympathizer and collaborator, I do enjoy your lively discussions, and you are still a Seselwa Rasin. So keep it coming. Have a nice weekend.

Anonymous said...

Gentlemen,

I believe we can agree that we disagree on this matter. There is however no need for asking eachother to go 'al fer fout' or other insults which unfortunately just show what many are made of here.

I must also comment the fact that my writings are my own opinion and sorry to say it, but if you don't like the fact that I won't sit here with you all and nod as you all say in chorus 'sa bann SPPF kouyon y kapab al fer fout', then you'll just have to keep on nodding to eachother.

Francis, I'm glad you enjoy my contributions and I can assure you that I'll keep them coming. I must say I prefer your writing to Chris'. He could and should learn a thing or two from you.

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

I agree we should have an open and honest debate. However, this issue of the Fabrike takeover of our country excites a lot of passion in our collective souls. We know our country is being sold out from under us by those we trusted to make "Seychelles Pour Seychellois".

It is very difficult to treat this fact with dispassionate deliberation and septic emotions. In short it is difficult to keep ones cool when your homeland is being stolen. This emotional feeling I am sure is magnified when we see a fellow Rasin siding with Fabrike to in our view sell us out, causing us to loose our country, our birthright and our homeland. So we have a fierce burning anger in our hearts that is not easily tamed or controlled.

But you are right Patrick X. No matter how hard it is, we must cool our emotions and use our heads to defeat the Fabrike and their collaborators so that Seselwa Rasin are paramount in their own country. And that we will do.

I appreciate your compliment on my writing style. But I for one prefer my brother Chris's writing style. Mine is a technical form of writing. His is a more emotional form of writing that conveys an immediacy and closeness to the roots of our problems that I cannot and never will match - it exhibits the honesty and dedication that is necessary or usually found in anyone who has fought for a cause, at great personal risk, virtually single handed over many years.

So while my brother may have much to learn from me, I too have much to learn from him.

Anonymous said...

Filipinos earn far more than $150 per month in the UAE and Western Expats earn far, far more in UAE than the Seychelles.

Interestingly like the Seychelles certain Emirates in the UAE are not in a good economic state. It is true that foreign residents can't vote in the UAE - but it is not a democracy. Is this how you want the Seychelles to be anti-democratic?

Anonymous said...

I refer to last comment:

expats working in government of Seychelles earn more then $150.00 a month in Seychelles. What are saying? Their pay is disporportionate to the work they do and the pay of Seselwa Rasin. It is a discriminatory policy that has the objective of preserving power at the cost of Seselwa Rasin rights.

The 10 French at PUC earn $500,000.00 per month between them.

The Irish men at the Police salary is over $12,000.00 a month, one of them, in charge is not even a police officer from Irelalnd. But a private investigator.

Give us a break.

These salaries do not include houses ( villas) cars, 4x4, free fuel,, free private international school, free airline tickets and the arroganc ethey import into Seychelles that they cast upon us.

Just look at the comments on this blog over the week-end, liking me to Hitler because I am standing up to protect the rights of my people. I have even been asked to start wearing knickers and lead a parade of Hitler Youth.

Pure arrogance, and rude.Very un Seychellois for a foreigner to attack a Seychellois in his own country.

When you engage in dialogue and debate on this site, take yourself seriously.

We do not need expats in Seychelles to do jobs Seychellois can do and do better.Simple.

It is a waste of money and the African Development Bank (ADB) supports the localization of all posts in government.

They just partially guaranteed $10 Million for interest payments to clear up some defaulted Bonds and buy us a little time.

The problem is that the Government is not willing to venture beyond the district office to find Seychellois who are qualified to do a job. If they are, they are fired by expats as we have seen in the Police time after time.

Look at the excellent work Alain St. Ange has done at STB. This is an example of a success story born out of a little effort.

In the past F. Savy and M. Lallanne would venture off to far away lands to find expats to do what St. Ange is doing today. They did not produce the results. Instead, these expat imports milked a badly run system for their own benefit and applied for passports therefter.

Get Real you are playing with our future as a people! Go milk your own cows!

Christopher Gill

//

Anonymous said...

Francis:

Speaking or writing from the heart is a good thing indeed and I must say I admire Chris' love for Seychelles and his will to do right, but politics are politics and that is what I am saying Chris should learn from you, i.e. to be less emotional and more political. As said before, I agree with a lot of his points(yours too for that matter), bt we must remember that Seychelles is a country playing on the internatioonal field and must act accordingly. If we start discriminating our Fabrikes, God knows what signal that will give to our allies. I suggest that the two of you combine your strong sides and kick some butt in a correct political way. You'll gain from it in the long run, trust me. :-)

Chris:
Being an expat comes with advantages and naturally disadvantages. I've been one so I know what I'm talking about. Countries/companies hire expats mainly because they do not have the expertise themselves and/or the necessary labour or their own labour is too expensive. France Albert Rene did another twist by hiring expats who's loyalty could be purchased. Expats usually make much more money that they would at home hence are able to support an entire family + the extended part of it.

A previous co-worker of min is married to a Filipina and once told me about the pressure on his wife from ,the family that is, to send money home and once it's done the ask for more and more and more. If it's not for a new fridge, it's to repair a car, to open a shop or other business or to send some nephew or niece to private school. He told me that many Filipinos have 2-3 jobs and do nothing but work in order to be able to support their family. After 5 years in their new country they are tired, after 10 years they are enraged and after 20 they are bitter people after years of enslavement by their family at home. Those unfortunate souls get to travel home maybe once every 3-5 years, live in small apartments and have literally no life whatsoever. Some manage to get citizenship in their new country and eventually bring their family over. These people are in other words no different than the average Seychellois who move abroad loooking for a better future.

cont...

Anonymous said...

cont...

Now as to the salaries of our expats I cannot comment it further as your figures seem to me like taken out of rumours, but in the case of PUC I would find it natural that the government pays Suez a lump sum every month or every year and Suez again pays their French workers, i.e it's Suez problem, not the government's. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've worked many years as a contractor and have been on site in Asia where I've walked around taking photos with a camera who's price could feed another expats family for a year or two in their home country. Not that my camera is particularly expensive, but these unfortunates earn little, very little, but still choose 2-3 year contracts making 15 USD/day and not seeing their family for the entire contract. Would you do it? Desperate enough I think you would.

Expats are found many places, pretty much everywhere and during my travels(trust me, I've been around) I've encountered many and asked the reason for the use of expats contra locals and in many island nations I've been given the same answer many times: 'Because the locals are lazy, they steal and are rude to our clients'. Now that applied mostly for the hotel sector. In the US cruise ship sector I was told the same, but in the international cruise sector the main reason is price. A Filipino engine boy makes 400 USD per month working on a 11 month contract whilst another Filipino working as second engineer can make 5000 USD/month. At least there is no discrimination in nationality and salary there.

Now you say we do not need expats and I say I agree, but: I believe that from a learning point of view we do need and should have expats as it is always good to learn from others. Having only one nation in a company's management is fatal in the long run. Alain St Ange has indeed made great effort and I am happy to see a Seychellois at the wheel there. Not that an expat there would bother me if and only if he/she was hired for the expertise, not for purchased loyalty. The latter unfortunately, is a relic from Rene's time where expats he could control were preferred before Seychellois, even those he himself sent to Cuba for their education. Some of those have become Fabrike and we are unfortunately stuck with it, like it or not. We must however treat them with the same respect we'd treat any foreigner,. Expat or not, IOT empoyee or Suez employee. We simply cannot start bullying our Fabrikes, but we have the full right to be as demanding to them as we are to our Rasin and treat them like any Seychellois. We have to in other words treat them as we ourselves would expect to be treated if we were in their situation.

Patrick X

HarryB said...

I have a lot of time for the opposition to the SPPF/parti lepep but the comments on here are reactionary right wing jargon not unlike the BNP in the UK, the FN in France and other neo-nazi style parties. Nationalism leads to one thing ... intolerance and hate. The tone of the comments on here for the most part are bitter, ill-informed and distorted. Despite its political problems Seychelles future resides in it portraying an image of tolerance evident in the multi-racial make-up of its inhabitants (none of whom are an indigeneous population), providing a warm welcome to visitors and safeguarding its environment.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

I do not agree that protecting Seselwa Rasin interests will create a substantial backlash from our international allies. Many countries protect the interests of their Rasin population and suffer no international backlash as a result. And these countries are not necessarily Arab sultanates like the UAE or dictatorships as one comment suggested.

Take Switzerland for instance, a well recognized Western democracy. You cannot acquire Swiss citizenship because you were born in Switzerland, no matter how long you live and work there. You become a Swiss citizen primarily based on your ancestry - where your mother or father originate, not where they were born.

To be a citizen of Switzerland you, or your ancestors, must be registered in the canton (district) where your ancestors originate. Then all your descendants, to become Swiss, must obtain a certificate in the district where their ancestors originated certifying to the history of their ancestors in that district. Then your descendants must also register in that district so that their descendants may obtain a certificate to show their ancestry so they may claim Swiss citizenship. The Japanese, also a democracy, have a similar, though more restrictive system, to obtain their citizenship than even the Swiss.

To be naturalized in Switzerland, one must live there for 12 years to even apply. After you have applied, you must get the consent of both the district you live in and and of the town you live in . Both your district and your town must accept your application. In some districts your application is put up for a vote by all the citizens living in that district who, by referendum and majority vote, decide if you are entitled to Swiss citizenship. The criteria that you must meet to be accepted in this long process of naturalization is that:1. You must be integrated into a Swiss way of life; 2. You must show a satisfactory level of familiarity with Swiss customs, habits and traditions; 3. You must comply with Swiss rule of law; and 4. You must not be considered any kind of threat to Swiss national security.

The Swiss system is a centuries long tradition designed to protect Swiss culture and the Swiss way of life, and has undergone only minor modifications over the centuries it has existed. Numerous referendums to change and liberalize these laws have been defeated by the Swiss.

With these laws the Swiss have ensured that their country is not sold out from under them or stolen from them, as is happening to us with the Fabrike and their collaborators. The Swiss, with a relatively small population, are aware how easy it would be to loose their country if unscrupulous politicians choose to sell their passports for $20,000 each to any comer in retrun for their votes and bribes. We have even more reason to be more restrictive than the Swiss, since our Seselwa Rasin population is but a fraction of that of Switzerland's.

Moreover, the Swiss too have a large expat population, primarily working in their banking industry, who, in most cases, have worked in Switzerland for decades without claiming or requiring that the Swiss give them their citizenship as part of their contract of employment.

The Swiss also have a large tourist economy that is not adversely affected by their strict nationality laws designed to protect their way of life. One can argue that many tourists travel to Switzerland precisely because of their strict nationality laws to get a glimpse of the Swiss way of life protected by their strict nationality laws - in effect their strict nationality laws have promoted and enhanced their tourism industry, not hurt it.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

If the Swiss can protect their customs, patrimony and way of life why can't we Seselwa Rasin do the same thing? If the Swiss can do it, why can't we do it? If we have international "allies" who are our friends only because we are willing to sell out our country to them, we cannot consider them our allies. We must find new allies who do not object to our efforts to keep our country and not sell it to Fabrike, and who do not require us thereby to succumb to and accept the SPPF/PP dictatorship.

Our country does not belong to Fabrike and is not for sale no matter what our international allies say or want, though I do not think they will oppose our efforts. It belongs to us Seselwa Rasin and we will fight to keep it no matter what our international allies say or want, though we will try to keep their support.

The fact that Seychelles is for Seselwa Rasin and Seselwa Rasin only was confirmed under the Independence banner we all agreed to follow on Independence Day of "Seychelles Pour Seychellois". International friends who do not accept this fact are not our friends. They are friends of the Fabrike.

On the issue of expats, one thing should be clear. They work for us and we do not work for them. They are in our country to serve Rasin interests. They are our employees. They are the employees of every single Seselwa Rasin. Like in any employer/employee contract we must hire only the help we absolutely need to develop our country for Seselwa Rasin's benefit. The contracts of employment for gernment employed expats must be derived on an arms length basis and not in an insider atmosphere of corruption as is now the case, and in an atmosphere of transparency and must be on the best terms, consistent with hiring good help, for us Seselwa Rasin. The problem is our employees now think they own our country - the employees think they own the business. We must make this point clear to expats, they are welcome but they work for us not the other way around. If this is too difficult for our expats to accept we will find hired help elsewhere - there are thousands of expats in the world who will do their job on our terms.

Anonymous said...

I reply to Harry B-

While I believe most of the arguments for protecting our citizenship status to prevent Fabrikes from making it to the electoral register have been argued,there are three
smple points which I would like to highlight in reply to your comment concerning "neo -nazi" jargon which you infer.

Point One (1) we are referring to fake passport holders. We are referring to people who buy their passports, hence the term "Fabrikes' that end up on our electoral roll. There are many and they affect the outcome of the elections.

Point Two (2) Last year, 1800 Seselwa Rasin lost their jobs in government of Seychelles. The IMF told P.P. to down size.

While Seselwa Rasin go unemployed, Michel Adminsitration hires under contract, expats to do work that can be done by Seychellois.

It is not Nazism to call this foul. It is a bread and butter issue and a citizens right to serve his /her country over a foreign contract worker.

Today in Seychelles, customs officers that open boxes at the airport and check for the third wine bottle,just came in from Australia. This is unacceptable.

There is no excuse for it.

In the Police Force a group of Seychelles best Police in 2009 were sacked. Many went on to take on jobs in private sector, making more money then the Commissioner of Police.

But they are Police Officers at heart, and they want their jobs back. But a group of Irish contracted expats keeps them from having their jobs back.

Point Three (3) is a question. How do you explain the huge-disporportionate salaries being paid to these expats? Now, I open up discussions for anyone to reply, because I as many Seychellois are over the wall on this, especially when we are not getting anything more then what we were with Seychellois at the helm.

Lastly, if a Seychellois cannot work in the Seychelles where can he/she work?

Thank you for your input.

Christopher Gill

Leonard Francis Gill said...

HarryB:

I disagree that there are no indigenous people in Seychelles. We Seselwa are just a young or new indigenous group. The Meriam-Webster dictionary defines indigenous as "having originated in and being produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment <the indigenous culture". We Seselwa Rasin and our culture fit this definition perfectly.

Seselwa Rasin are very tolerant of all races and all nationalities, though we Seselwa Rasin are nationalists in protecting what is ours. All people and races are welcome in our country. We have an exemplary and unmatched brand of hospitality. But like the Swiss our guests cannot have our country. Our country belongs to us Seselwa Rasin and not to Fabrike or expats.

HarryB you say there is bitterness in our comments. You are wrong, there is only love for what is ours and is being stolen from us. You say there is hate in our comments. Again you are wrong. We do not hate anybody. All our words speak only of love for what is ours.

Anonymous said...

HarryB and Patrick X - clearly the real voices of truth and reality.

Anonymous said...

Hi everyone,

I have been off this site for some time.

Patrick X- you have been trying so hard to defend yourself and SPPF. You even seem to imported Harry B.

We don't need gill to tell us Seychelles is a kolony. We all know it. But thank you gill for waking us up from our sleep. but my family speaks about this problem every day. It is true.

My cousin works at puc and he says the french are paid Rupees 124 Million. The contract term he says is in the Nation. So it is true Patrick, stop lying about it. the electricity bills went up because puc have to pay th esalaries of these french. all everyone in the market is talking about it and sppf are talking about.

Keep it up gill. I would like to thank Volcere as well he wrote a good article on prison this week in Weekly. I thank Ramkalawan too. He wrote some good things in Regar.Now try to work together to take Seychelles from people like Patrick X and who ever this Harry b .

But my cousin also wants to thank Mr. Mancham. He never sold Seychelles like James Michel is doing today. This we must never forget his mother said.

Lera Rosse

Anonymous said...

I like this site.

Keep on exchanging ideas. It puts presuure on the establishment, since they stay quite, unless they are lying through their teeth.

That style does not work well today.

Hats off to STAR !

JP
London

Anonymous said...

I am a little bit in doubt about Francis' definition of 'indegenous', but at the same time I must say I also agree with it. The difficult part is to determine how far back one must go in order to qualify to have 'origins' in a place. I'll quote the definition here:
'having originated in and being produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment'
One one side nobody really originated from Seychelles unless you consider yourself a relative of a Caiman or Per Kobe as we are all newcomers relatively speaking, i.e from a historical point of view. But if we set the 'Clock of origin' back the the first French settlers who arrived on St Anne in the early 1700s, the indegenous Seychellois would be the direct ancestors of those if any remain today. For all we know the line ecending from these first settlers and their slaves could have died out, but that's beyond the point. The point is, at least from a long term historical point of view, that we are all Fabrikes in one way or another.
Example 1: One of the the first settlers of La Digue, the Payets, arrrived in Seychelles as hijackers of a vessel bound for India as they were deported from Ile Bourbon(Reunion) after causing political unrest. The then governer did not know what to do with those troublemakers so he allowed them to stay provided that they stayed in La Digue and didn't bother the rest of the population. And what about the Hodouls, descendants of a cunning pirate. Are these Fabrikes too since the didn't 'originate' from Seychelles or were direct descendants of the very first settlers there? We can the same about the Pillays, Soleils, Moussa or anyone with a British name for that matter as they were neither direct desecendants of the first settlers. Then again, who are direct descendants of the first settlers as our population has and immigration has been growing continuously since Seychelles first was inhabited by the French. Then again, the Arabs were there even before the French making them the true 'Rasin' of Seychelles had any of them survived and not ended up buried on Silhouette.

Example 2: Now let's concentrate on Francis' definition and not have any timeline or zero-origin. Let's take the children of Fabrikes who are born and raised in Seychelles. According to the definition, these will also qualify as Rasin as they too have originated, been produced, grow, live and find Seychelles the most natural place to be as it's their domestic envoronment. Indegenous? Indeed!

cont....

Anonymous said...

cont...

Example 3: Look at the word growing in Francis' definintion. I for one was born in Seychelles, but was raised elsewhere as I left at a relatively early age. I left long before I got my first zits, hence I was still a child. I do not live in Seychelles although I originated there and was produced there, but I occur naturally there as I feel at home in my country. Do I qualify as being inegenous? Does Chris Gill qualify as being indegenous as he also grew up(at least physically) outside Seychelles? Does Danny Faure qualify as being indegenous as he was both produced and born elsewhere?

As you see guys, it is not as simple as we want it to be and the dangerous part of it is when one gets a mix of my 3 examples above. That's why I say let the Fabrikes be Fabrikes and let life go on, but do make them regular Seychellois by giving them the same rights, respect and the chance to prove themselves to be Seselwa the same ways our forefathers became Seselwa when they first put their feet on Seychelles soil after making a long and hazardous sea journey from India, Arabia, China, Korea, Africa and last but not least Europe. Today's Fabrikes got their citizenships as legally as the Payets, Hodouls and other troublemakers of the past did. Remember something else folks, our black population known then as the mazambiks became also Fabrike when the British abolished slavery in 1834(correct me if I'm wrong) when the stateless slaves became citizens of Seychelles.

So before we start classifying our new citizens, send a few thoughts back to our forefathers who laid the foundations for our country. Who knows, maybe a Fabrikes son or daughter will lead us the right way one day. Then again maybe not, but at least give them that chance, the same chance our forefathers got when they were accepted as citizens then.

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

Under your flawed analysis and interpretation of who is indigenous the Polynesians are Fabrike because they originated from Malaysia. The Australian aboriginal people are Fabrike because they originated from Africa. And, if you go far back enough we all "originated" from somewhere around Ethiopia where the first humans are believed to have originated. So under your approach no one can claim to be indigenous unless they live somewhere in Ethiopia.

But the entire world accepts the fact that the original settlers of any previously empty land are the indigenous or original people of that land originating from that land. Under this criteria we Seselwa Rasin are the original people or the indigenous people of Seychelles. This conclusion is consistent with the definition of indigenous described in the Mariam-Webster dictionary which you misread in the conjunctive rather than as it should have been read in the disjunctive.

As examples, the Polynesians know they are the indigenous people of their land no matter where their ancestors originally came from. The Australian Aboriginal people know they are the indigenous people of their land no matter where their ancestors came from. The American Indians or Native Americans know they are the indigenous people of their land no matter where their ancestors came from. We Seselwa Rasin know we are the indigenous inhabitants of our land, Seychelles, no matter where our ancestors came from to inhabit Seychelles.

Each referenced category of indigenous people knew who they were and what belonged to them even when they were being slaughtered for their land and resources and their identity denied. No one needed to tell them that they were the original inhabitants of their land and owned it. They knew and now know that they are the rightful owners of their homeland regardless of whether foreigners or collaborators accept their rights of ownership as an indigenous people. They simply knew it just like we Seselwa Rasin know that Seychelles belongs to us and it is being sold,stolen and given away to Fabrike right from under our noses.

For us Seselwa Rasin a clear point of demarcation where you can state with clarity and certainty who we Seselwa Rasin are as a people, with a unified culture, language and ownership of Seychelles with well recognized common bonds of association was on the date of Independence.

When we became independent on the 29th of June 1976 we all knew who we were and accepted it - Seselwa Rasin. We all knew we were Seychellois and united in the common ownership of our country and with the collective responsibility to develop it. This was the banner held high by the SPUP and accepted as the basis for independence and a unity government by the SDP and underpinned the philosophical basis for us Seselwa Rasin seeking and obtaining independence from the British. That banner was "Seychelles Pour Seychellois". This banner has been betrayed by Rene/Michel.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Furthermore, Patrick X your efforts to divide us Rasin between this kind of Rasin versus another kind of Rasin indicates a lack of understanding of the basic but simple point of who is a Seselwa Rasin and how did we Seselwa Rasin come into being as a single unified people and what rightfully belongs to us. We are not Payets, or French settlers, or African slaves, or mazambik or Grand Blanc, or replante, or derasine or this or that because of this or that. We, every single one of us, are who we are - Seselwa Rasin no if, ands or buts.

Though I am not saying that within our Seselwa Rasin people we do not have differences. We do. We have big differences. We are of all races and colors. Of many different religions and of many different political beliefs. Take for instance the differences between you and I. I am a Rasin Patriot and you are a Fabrike Collaborator.

But that does not make either one of us less Rasin. We are both plain and simply Seselwa Rasin, the indigenous people of Seychelles and owners of its patrimony, even if your Fabrike collaboration philosophy forces you to renounce what is yours by the rights established by your ancestors. So you and I are Seselwa Rasin regardless of where we were born, where we grew up, where we ahve worked, who we married, what kind of food we like to eat or wine we prefer to drink and that applies to you, Danny Faure, Christoper Gill or myself for that matter. We are plain and simply Seselwa Rasin with inalienable inherited rights derived from our ancestors.

Therefore, all persons who were Seychellois at the time of independence and their descendants are the indigenous people of Seychelles originating from Seychelles. The fact that we have a more detailed knowledge of the history of our migration to Seychelles than do the Australian aboriginal people of their migration to Australia does not mean we are any less indigenous or original than the Australian Aboriginal people. Since there were no other previous inhabitants when our ancestors came ashore in Seychelles, we were and are the original people and inhabitants of Seychelles. Just like the Swiss who migrated from France , Italy and Germany to the mountains of the Swiss Alps and who now have registered their original inhabitants and to whom you must trace your ancestry before you can claim Swiss citizenship.

Finally, we Seselwa Rasin are the true owners of Seychelles. Fabrike's do not own our country and never will and they cannot participate in our elections. If they vote in our elections a future Rasin government must deport them. Expats work for us Seselwa Rasin and therefore are each Seselwa Rasin's employees, we do not work for them, nor do we need to give them our country for them to work for us, and, if we do not need expats, we should employ Seselwa Rasin first. These are some basic Seselwa Rasin-ist principles that are non-negotiable principles under the banner of "Seychelles Pour Seychellois".

Anonymous said...

Since the system of granting citizenship has been put in place by SPPF/PL then only them or a a new govt will be able to change that.

Given that the SPPF/PL will not change anything that is in their favour, then a new govt will have to do that.

The issue therefore is whether this campaign will make the Opposition get more votes and win an election?

This present sentiment is not new in Seychelles. However i must admit that it is not widespread a sentiment. Personally i have not had any conversation of this nature with anyone on the street.

I agree that cizenship must be given under stringent conditions, however as to whether and how cizenship already given out is to be taken back i believe it to be too premature a debate.

Vox

Anonymous said...

EX PAT

What I am becoming increasingly concerned with is the NATIONALISTIC approach of Mr Gill et Al. Why should an honest investor in Seychelles, invest his money, employ local people,pay his taxes, BUT STILL HAVE NO RIGHTS? Example: you pay your GOP for 8 years.cause no trouble, employ 14 local people, pay 100,000 rupees a month into the economy of Seychelles in taxes but are still classed as a second class citizen with no rights?
IT IS WRONG! A Seychellois can go to UK and after 6 years of honest behavior, working , paying taxes and not being a burden on the Social security system GET CITIZENSHIP!
Mr Gill you have lost me and all other ex pats who may have supported you.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with the Gills and I'm branded as a Fabrike Colaborator. I suppose it's better than being a Cabolocater. ;-) Francis dude, don't get your nickers in a twist mate. My interpretations were as incorrect and/or as correct as yours. The point was to prove the complexity of the defintion or any definition for that matter where several criteria are to be met. It seem s like to you guys the Rasins are any Seychelles citizens who agree with you and your points of view, in other words your interpretation of the definition. If I look up the word indegenous in other dictionaries I'm sure I'd find different, but similar definitions in each one. I do see your point though you about who is indegenous or not, but being the 'Agent Provocateur' that I am(I'd kick ass in a court of law) I cannot help twisting it and proving that the case would never hold in a court because I can assure you that if anybody even tried to take away a Fabrike's citizenship, a complaint would be raised, the first one from Ramadoss, and it would end up in a court of law and probably reach the highest level of appeal if it even made it past the first level.

A definition is that anyone who is representative to the majority of his/her country or region, for instance a Polynesian, can be said to be indegenous, but then again an Aborigine is no longer a majority of the population In Australia and it wouldn't surprize me if there were more Seselwa Eksporte in Australia than Aborigines. My poitn was to distinguish or rather define and set a standard stating how many generations it takes for a person te be able to call him or herself indegenous to a nation or region. In the Jungle of North-East Peru for instance there is a rather large German community who have been there for generations. Can they be called indegenous? Can the German majority of the Yukon Territory call themselves indegenous? What about the US military stationed in Guam and their kids born there? Not easy is it?

As to the banner 'Sesel pou Seselwa' I recall a certain Mr Paget(with a g), a pensioner who lived in Seychelles back in the 70s and decided to stay there after the '77 Coup, but was denied to do so as the government, led by Rene, set rules saying that a certain deposit(I believe it was around SR 10.000, a considerable amount at the time) was to be paid by all foreginers living in Seychelles, including Mr Paget who wasn'r fortunate enough to have that kind of money, but did have a pension coming in every month and wasn't bothering anyone. Mr Paget had to leave Seychelles and end the rest of his days in UK lonely, cold and miserable. With that said one can say Rene performed his own Rasinism in the early days of his prezidency only to go back on it all later. Will you guys also go back on it later, i.e when yu see the potential of making a buck or two from Fabrikes?

Anyway, I think we can go on with this discussion forever, but a word of advise: If you guys think you can wing votes with your Rasinism I think you have another thing coming. Remember one thing and remember that Patrick X told you that: 'Seselwa i bez makro, vey zot'.

As to who the true owners of Seychelles are you say it is the Rasins. What about the Rasins who have left for greener pastures, for instance those who left for Australia or UK or even France back in the 50s and 60s and have now come home to claim their parents' land. Are they too owners of Seychelles or have they been 'Derasine' too long that their roots have dried out?

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

To Patrick X:

You are engaging in mere sophistry. That is, to make argument just for the sake of it, and usually supported by dishonest or not genuinely held beliefs or supportable evidence or facts.

Contrary to your position, there is a correct description of who are indigenous people. Any person who migrates to an area that is claimed by an existing people is generally know as a migrant not an indigenous person or original inhabitant. Therefore most of your examples would not be considered indigenous people because there was an existing group claiming ownership over the territory they migrated to and inhabited.

Seychelles was tera incognito - unknown land. It was uninhabited. We Seselwa Rasin are its first and original internationally recognized inhabitants. We are therefore the indigenous people of Seychelles. It is as simple as that. There is no complexity in applying the definition of indigenous to us Seselwa Rasin as you state - you are simply creating complexity where none exists, just for the sake of doing so. On Independence Day Seychelles was claimed by us Seselwa Rasin under our sovereignty and under the banner "Seychelles Pour Seychellois". On that date the international community recognized us Seselwa Rasin as the sovereign inhabitants and owners of Seychelles.

Moreover we Seselwa Rasin, as the original inhabitants of Seychelles, have an internationally recognized right to define ourselves as the indigenous people of Seychelles. This is enshrined in the United Nations Declaration of Rights of Indigenous People adopted and voted for by Seychelles and the General Assembly in September 2007. This Declaration also provides us with the legal basis to protect our land and culture from invasion by the Fabrike and to revoke their ill gotten citizenship. The same result is evident in the resolutions of the International Labor Organization's pronouncements on this issue.

So contrary to your position, our indigenous status is cut and dry with no ifs ands or buts and this fact will stand up in court.

But we need not go to court to prove what is ours. This is a political question that we Rasin will resolve with our political force - and by revolution if necessary, if we are cheated out of electoral fairness as Vox suggests the PP will do. And when the Ramados' of the world challenges us, however the challenges come, we will confront them and defeat all the Fabrike who wish to steal what belongs to us.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

You say we label you a Fabrike collaborator because you disagree with us. You are incorrect. We label you a Fabrike collaborator because that is what you are, not because you disagree with us. A Fabrike collaborator is a Seselwa Rasin who collaborates with Fabrike to give to the Fabrike what belongs to Seselwa Rasin. You recognize Fabrike as having equal citizenship rights as Seselwa Rasin when those rights belong solely to Seselwa Rasin and Rasin only. Someone with your beliefs is by definition a Fabrike Collaborator, it is not a matter of our opinion, it is a fact. Since that is what you are and what you beleive, I do not understand why you take offense by being defined by what you advocate, unless you consider your beliefs to be immoral or somehow improper - perhaps you are a secret Rasin-ist. For instance, a communist is not offended by being called a communist, to the contrary, they are or should be proud of the label and will usually call themselves a communist.

Finally on this point, contrary to what you said, and consistent with what I have written before, even if you disagree with me, and even if you are a Fabrike Collaborator, you are still a Seselwa Rasin. No one can take that away from you. Your absolute status as a Rasin does not depend on anything you do,have done, or will do - it simply exists.

You ask whether a Rasin who has left Seychelles can have "dried" up roots and is therefore no longer a Rasin. Your status as Rasin is not a personal right depending on what you do personally. For instance no one can take away your status as Rasin even if you are a Fabrike Collaborator; you are still Rasin. Your status as Seselwa Rasin is a right derived not from your personal actions but from your ancestry, just like Swiss citizenship is derived from Swiss ancestry. So the answer to your question is that if you are a Rasin, you and your descendants will always be Rasin, no matter how long you live outside Seychelles and no matter what else you do personally with your life. Seychelles is your homeland - much like the Jewish people who claim rights to live in Israel derived from their ancestry several thousand years before. So yes a Rasin who left for "greener pastures" in the 50's and 60's is still Rasin and Seychelles belongs to them and their descendants just like any other Seselwa Rasin.

With respect to your point that we will not get votes with Seselwa Rasin-ism. Seselwa Rasin-ism is not a tool designed to get votes. Is is a principle. It is our ideology. It is our belief. It is not to be changed if it is inconvenient or to be manipulated to scrounge up a few votes from Fabrike so power hungry people like the PP can keep power.

You also state that Seychellois are "makro" or unreliable, so you warn us to be careful seeking their support. While we would like all Seselwa Rasin support, Seselwa Rasin-ism is not an idelogy that we put forward only on condition we get support for it.

You imply that if we cannot get reliable support for Rasin-ism we should be careful to promote and defend it. You have once more misunderstood our motives. We are not putting Rasin-ism forward simply because we expect support as a result. Rasin-ism is put forward by us because it is right whoever supports, or whoever does not support it, or whoever betrays it or is loyal to it. It is right because it was our ideology of independence under the banner of "Seychelles Pour Seychellois".

Finally, as long as I am alive I will never betray "Seychelles Pour Seychellois" no matter what benefits are offered from your Fabrike or PP friends. You can rest assured of that.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

And to the Expat - yes I am a nationalist. And no you cannot have our country because you invest and labor in Seychelles. Seychelles is not yours. It belongs to us Seselwa Rasin. If you are investing and working in our country only because you expect us to give it to you, please put your investment elsewhere where they will give you their country for your investment and labors. Though, like in Switzerland, you are more than welcome to stay, invest, work and prosper in our country, and have the full and equal protection of our laws. You just cannot have our citizenship and our country. Seselwa Rasin are the only legitimate citizens of Seychelles and the only ones who can legitimately vote in our elections, no one else - not even you Expat.

Anonymous said...

I guess that clears up a lot. I must admit that I also had the same thougths and mentality some years back, but then something happened: I matured.

Good luck with your Rasinism campaign guys, but I still advise you that the way to a vote majority is through hard work and direct contact with the grass-roots, not through voting abroad or Rasinism. It would also help actually starting a political party with a manifest.

Cheers

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

Leonard and Chris
You are tarring every foreigner in this country with the same brush, you make no distinction between the takers and the givers. To solve the issue those foreigners who qualify should get Residency rather than citizenship, not allowing them to vote or claim from the state coffers. But would allow those who have invested in Seychelles and Seychellois by creating jobs and wealth for the LOCAL PEOPLE and economy, to forgo the absurd GOP, security bond and yearly APPROVAL by the Dept of Employment currently in force.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

Are you saying you used to be a Rasin-ist a "couple years back."

If so, I would not define a movement to a Fabrike Collaborationist position as maturity, that is being too generous with yourself. It is tantamount to, in my view, cowardice in the face of the enemy - the highest form of treason. Stand your Rasin-ist ground Patrick X, hold the line; come back to the front lines against the PP Fabrike Collaborationists and help us to defeat them.

You should be with us Seselwa Rasin-ists Patrick X. You have no business rubbing shoulders with these PP Fabrike Collaborators - you are too good for them. So, put aside your false "maturity" and come back to your roots - Seselwa Rasin-ism. We will accept you as one of us - no questions asked.

Now, armed with Rasin-ist ideology we can unite the opposition around Rasin-ist ideology to defeat the PP Fabrike Collaborators. You can pitch in to help.

Your last comment indicates an intention to stop contributing to the Rasin-ist discourse that has allowed both sides to explain their positions more clearly here. I hope you will continue your efforts.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

To anonymous who is concerned that Chris and I have tarred all foreigners with the same brush, thank you for your constructive comments.

Chris and I have no problem with foreigners. We just do not think they have a right to our citizenship. We agree with you that there should be an easy process for responsible law abiding foreign investors to come into our country, invest and create jobs and opportunities that will benefit us Seselwa Rasin.

We agree with you that the PP have implemented a complex web of laws and taxes that impede foreign investments and the benefits it could provide us Seselwa Rasin so 25% of the Rasin population need not live at or below the food poverty level. The PP have devised this complex, inefficient and expensive foreign investment system so there are more opportunities for the PP to collect bribes from foreigners who want and are granted this or that exemption from this or that fee or tax. These bribes are funds that actually belong to all Seselwa Rasin but more importantly, they retard Rasin prosperity. This system must be dismantled and replaced with a user friendly and foreign investor friendly system that will ultimately generate more revenue from economic activity generated by foreign investments which can be spent on improving the lives of Seselwa Rasin.

So, as long as foreigners are not given or sold our citizenship, all else is negotiable to find the optimal foreign investment strategy to achieve the highest Seselwa Rasin level of long term prosperity. What that strategy will ultimately look like is completely negotiable with foreigners such as yourself providing input.

HarryB said...

It's no surprise that populist themes are used to attract adherents to political movements and causes the world over. Unfortunately the most common populist agenda present in society today is to blame everything on anyone but oneself and in a national context that is to blame the foreigner. France (North Africans), The UK (Pakistanis), USA (Mexicans)are just a few present day examples of such populism at work. Of course the ultimate demonstration of manipulative populism was Germany's treatment of Europe's Jewish population.
The SPUP/SPPF etc. are past masters at populism and have held onto power through (not only the threat of force) manipulating the masses for years ...all for the common good of the common Seychellois man etc (whilst the 'dear leaders' amassed fortunes). It is unfortunate that some factions of the opposition resort to such base tactics as blaming the foreign presence for Seychelles ills. An easier scapegoat you couldn't find. Don't for one minute believe there is some sort of foreign clique hell bent on controlling Seychelles for its own benefit....we are simply too small a country (let's not exaggerate our importance on a global scale). These people have come to Seychelles having been invited by Seychellois businesses and the government. The architect of these policies are Seychellois themselves and those are the ones you should be pointing the finger at if you so vehemently disagree with what's happening.
The terminolgy used on here as in 'Rasin' and 'fabrike' is so loaded and divisive that I'd urge those employing it to sit back and seriously re-evaluate their strategy. It's evident through many of the comments I've read that there is much anger. Try channeling that anger (energy) into more constructive and effective ways of opposing those with whom you don't agree. I fear that trying to inflame and tap into anti-foreigner sentiment will only come back to haunt this country in the long term and lead to its ruin.

Anonymous said...

Quote Francis:

'Are you saying you used to be a Rasin-ist a "couple years back.'

Note quite, I am merely saying that I was an immature young man who thought everything could be solved by swift action, no matter what the case was.

Today I've matured and have more experience in life and realize that everything is not simply black or white, but comes in all shades of every colour. For that very reason I see the Rasin/Fabrike issue through the entire spectre. Had you asked me the same question years ago I would have been there on the front line waving my fist around.

Call it what you like, after all it's all a question of definition and the understanding of it, but I disagree that I am a colaborator of any kind. I'm merely seeing things from a different point of view than you guys. Maybe I'm a Rasin-Light, Closet Rasin or Pti-Rasin. You could even compare me to those trees found in a mangrove swamp as my Rasin is there firmly in the ground, but at the same time I'm hovering above the ground, sometimes even submerged in water. Still Rasin I guess, but see things from both above ground and below water. Makes me unique by a thousand roots.

I'll be around though, I like this site. :-)

Anonymous said...

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

Message for Patrick X

You are trying to fool people with your contributions... but you will not be able to fool all the people all the time. All you are doing is trying to diffuse the time bomb that Michel and co has thrown into the Seselwa's lap!
You pertain to be in your thirties and yet you have a vivid memory of Mr. Paget being denied citizenship by Albert Rene. You must be the first genius that Seychelles has ever known as you were already witnessing all these malvolent deeds of your paymasters since you were in your mother's womb!
We need brainies like you to help us get out of this mess...
Aret bat nou latet zot!!

Anonymous said...

Short reply to Harry B,

You are obviously olivious to some of the key thinking of some of the foreigner's turned Seselwa...
Our good old doctor Ramadoss' rise to stardom in Seychelles is tainted by a very scary ambition. After acquiring (and consipring with SPPF) most of our country's resources (ex SMB companies), being allowed to be the sole fleecer of the meagre savings of our poor Seselwa through his casino empire (frontman for SPPF), taking over of the prime printing press and opening his own mouthpiece (newspaper), he has recently hijacked the Chamber of Commerce in cohersion with the extended family of his fellow Indians and he has recently threatened to open his own party...
Sounds scary to you??? Well you better shiver in your pants as even Albert Rene told him to muzzle up when he got wind of the good doctor's personal ambitions...
Sesel pou Seselwa!

Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous,

If someone is thei mid-thirties anno 2010, which year could he/she be born in? And if you think it takes a genius to figure that out then I guess you do not have much high thoughts of yourself. I do remember Mr Paget very well despite my young age as remembering being told why he wasn't seen around anymore. Tall fellow, bald at the top, hair all white and a very good swimmer for his age. By the way, Mr Paget was not denied citizenship, he simply couldn't afford to pay the deposit required by Rene's government. And if I remember well Rene took power in 1977 and by that time I was well out of my mother's womb.

As to Ramadoss making his entry into SCCI I believe it was done in a most democratic way as he was elected. The previous chairman, Mr Albert Payet, had exceeded his time in the position and could not sit any longer. I despise very much of that crook Ramadoss and everything he stands for, but fair is fair and I cannot say that he hijacked the SCCI as he was elected as chairman. Yes, Ramadoss has ruined many Seychellois lives through his casino business, but so has Joe Albert with his gambling ventures, all started legally with the blessing of the SPPF/PL. Now, if you had a party would you go in to ban casinos and those amusement centres? I would love to see these vanished, but the question is: does any politician have the guts to close them once and for all?

Ramadoss may well start a party and if he should ever have success doing to, God forbid, I think he would be the worst dictator in Seychelles' history, far worse than Rene who despite his audacity did actually and crookedness do some good things for the people(fair is fair). Question is, who would vote for Ramadoss apart from his fellow Indians? I certainly wouldn't, not because he is Indian, but because he is a greedy, selfish corrup crooked bastard who only thinks of himself and his pocket. But Legally Ramadoss is also a Seychellois, just like you and me. A bad example of one, but nevertheless Seychellois although I'm ashamed to have a countryman like him.

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

To HarryB:

In the first instance we Seselwa Rasin-ists are not populists - we are nationalists. You are correct that the SPUP/SPPF started out as nationalist and ended up with an adaptive populism, as the need arose, that they manipulated simply to keep themselves in power - Rene/Michel betrayed us nationalists and have sold out our country to Fabrike through opportunistic populism.

If you read my past comments it will be clear to you that in my mind, and that of Seselwa Rasin-ists, we believe that many of our problems are caused by Fabrike Collaborators who are Seselwa Rasin. So we blame our own people first for our problems. These Fabrike Collaborators have sold us out to the Fabrike. They have stolen what belongs to us Rasin and given it to Fabrike. They have given away or sold what belongs to Rasin to the Fabrike just so they can hold political power just for a few more years. They, the Fabrike Collaborators, are our main enemy. We Rasin-ists have never hesitated to identify the Collaborators and blame them first for our problems - these Collaborators are our own people not foreigners. So you are incorrect when you state we have not blamed ourselves first for our problems.

However, in any struggle you must identify your opponents' critical allies and sources of strength that allow them to inflict the harm they are inflicting. One of the main groups that the Fabrike Collaborators use to keep themselves in power and thus able to inflict the harm on us Rasin as they have done, is the Fabrike. The Fabrike and the fraudulent voters the PP have placed on the voter registration rolls have allowed and will continue to allow the PP Fabrike Collaborators to keep power and continue to do harm to us Seselwa Rasin. So, to defeat the Collaborators we must defeat the Fabrike. To defeat the Fabrike we must contest their illegitimate rights to call themselves Seychellois and their illegitimate claims to vote in our elections.

You say there is much anger in our comments. You have misunderstood our commitment to our ideas and our determination and love to fight for and keep what is ours as anger. We are not angry at anyone and we should not be. But we love our country and it belongs to us Rasin and we are committed and determined to keep it by all means necessary - we will not allow it to be stolen, given away or sold right under our noses.

This nationalist philosophy was the philosophy of Independence in 1976 - "Seychelles Pour Seychellois". This was my Father's banner in the early 1960's when he helped Rene start the SPUP. This is the Rasin-ist banner now in our efforts to defeat the Fabrike Collaborators in their efforts to sell us out to Fabrike so they can keep themselves in power.

While you may not like our strong language, unfortunately it is simply a mirror image of the facts on the ground in Seychelles. Our language and descriptions accurately reflect what is occurring in Seychelles today. So what should be more offensive to you than our language are the facts occurring Seychelles, our homeland, that make our language and descriptions necessary and accurate - not the descriptions themselves.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

You cannot call it maturity when a burglar is in your house walking away with your TV set and you try to understand the reasons for his actions before you stop him. There is no gray in this situation. It is black and white. You stop him cold by any means necessary, then ask questions later.

Often times a claim to maturity disguises indecision and an unwillingness to take any action. The Fabrike are walking away with our country. A mature person can see that we need to take action and do so immediately. When your homeland is invaded there is no seeing the invaders point of view. There is only defending what is rightfully yours with all the might necessary and required.

Finally, you say Ramados is Seychellois. I disagree. He is a Fabrike. He is an example of how much of our country we have already lost. He is not content that Rene/Michel have given him favorable concessions to all kinds of businesses in our country. Now he wants political power too. Soon he probably will want to exile us Rasin from our own country, when he takes control of our country. I would not be surprised if he is not bringing into Seychelles hundreds of "workers" for whom he will buy citizenship so they can vote for him and make him your President.

How did our country come to this Patrick X, where an SPPF/PP invention and counterfeit like Ramados now thinks he owns it, and has a right to own and control it? More importantly, how can you let it go on? Do you and other Fabrike Collaborators have no shame?

Anonymous said...

Francis,

I'd rather lose my 32" flat screen than my 36 years on earth to a burglar with a gun or a knife in his hand. I can always get a new TV and with my 32" gone I have an excuse to get that 50" in addition to a burglar alarm as I don't have one as of today. Do you understand my logic now?

As to Ramadoss I am not worried because no malbar of his calibre will ever get power in Seychelles, let alone keep it. Why? For one the PL would never allow that to happen as they would find a way to jam his machinery the saem way the did to Radovan Krejcir when he got too tiresome, Second of all he would not be safe from the army as there are many there who are loyal to Michel and wouldn't hesitate a secod to put a bullet in Ramadoss. Trust me on that one. Third of all, he would be betrayed by one of his fellow Indians as he would get greedy and sooner or later piss another of them off. Mon konn malbar mon frer, kwar mwan!

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

This is a very revealing response from you Mr. X.

You have previously argued strenuously for the point that Ramados is a Seychellois just like you and me, with the full rights of a Seychellois. Now when Ramados is prepared to fully exercising those rights you Fabrike Collaborators have given to him as a Seychellois, including the right to become President of Seychelles, you call him a "malbar" or Indian and advocate and hope for his murder to prevent him from exercising those rights. This is hypocritical and is a typical PP dishonest approach as it has used on many other issues.

If in your heart and mind you believe that Ramados is not a real Seychellois, as your comment suggests and as we Rasin-ist know, you should just say it plainly, and you should join us Rasin-ists in our efforts to amend our constitution to make it clear. Why do you need all this dishonesty, hypocrisy, manipulation, false claims of maturity, false diplomacy, propaganda and general sneakiness about the issue unless you Fabrike Collaborators are just using the Fabrike to keep power as we Rasin-ists know and have stated?

Why can't you PP Collaborators be honest, clear and straightforward about your intentions, and about the kind of country you want to create for your children and grandchildren? An honest clear and straightforward country is the kind of country we Seselwa Rasin want. We do not want a country that is ruled by a President who assassinates his potential rivals. We do not want a country where our president assassinates troublesome people even Ramados or other Fabrike. We do not want a country where our army is an instrument of assassination and an instrument used to keep one man in power. We want a decent professional army loyal to Rasin interests and which is designed and used to repel armed foreing invaders, not one used to murder ones political rivals.

Secondly, while I believe your assertion that Michel is willing, capable and has planned to murder Ramados, because you intimate you have inside information of such plans, I am surprised that a man who claims to be of as high of a caliber as you claim for yourself, would support a political murderer as President of our country over even Ramkalawan, Volcere or even more so Christopher, who is an honest, brave, decent and dedicated man.

Your position is a reflection on you and who you are Patrick X. Think about this.

I personally wonder how do you look at yourself in the mirror when you know behind your eyes lie these kinds of opinions? How do you hug your children when you know the indecent thoughts in the brain that control the arms hugging them?

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Also, I do not have as much confidence as you do in the PP's ability to protect our country from Fabrike like Ramados. Your PP Fabrike Collaborators have created these Fabrike believing the Fabrike would honor the deal you have made with them. You give them our citizenship and favorable business operating conditions and in return they vote and keep you in power, and the Fabrike give you Collaborators bribes. And you Fabrike Collaborators believe that if the Fabrike get out of line you can always run them out of the country, and if all else fails, you can murder them.

But Ramados's intentions to be President of Seychelles should be a wake up call to you Collaborators. The Fabrike are not content with this arrangement that you Fabrike Collaborators have worked out for them. They want our country - all of it; not just the business part of it that you have given to them. That is what is on Ramados's mind and on the mind of hundreds of other Fabrike you Collaborators have brought into our country.

While you plot to murder Ramados, what makes you think he is not plotting to murder you and other Collaborators? What makes you think he is not bringing into our country "malbar" loyal to him and trained in the military arts and ready to murder Michel and everyone else in his way, and with the support of his native land - India; the giant to the northeast. If a person of modest ability as myself can think of this, you can be sure Ramados, who is a lot more intelligent and capable than me has been thinking of it too.

You Fabrike Collaborators are walking a dishonest and hypocritical path with your Fabrike friends. This is not the kind of country we want. And you are putting all Seselwa Rasin interests at risk. You are putting us at risk of losing our country by playing with radioactive material that Ramados and your other Fabrike friends represent.

We Rasin need to all stand together now. We must revoke Ramados's passport and those of all other Fabrike. They must be told straight that our country does not belong to them. That he cannot be President of our country not because he will be killed or because he will betrayed by one of his own but because it is not his right to be President of our country. That it belongs only to us Seselwa Rasin - that way there can be no misunderstandings between us as there is now.

Furthermore, to ensure our security and to maintain our national dignity we must restrict all employment in our police force and our security forces including immigration to Rasin only - Rasin should not be policed by foreigners in their own country. We must create a professional security force loyal to Rasin interests and not to any one one man or to continue to be one man's assassination squad.

Above all, we must establish a country that is ruled by law. That law must guaranty the rights of all residents and be equally applied to all. No one should be murdered in Seychelles by our government for any reason. This is the kind of country we need and want and must start to work to obtain now.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

One more thing. Your analogy about running out of your house to avoid the burglar; it is a faulty analogy.

A correct analogy is that as you see the burglar stealing your 32" TV set in your living room, you immediately, with little maturity or courage, run out the back door thinking you can replace the TV with a 50" set and a new burglar alarm. Meanwhile, as you escape you see the burglar heading to the bedroom where your wife is sound asleep thinking you are there to protect her, and you have left your children to be harmed as the burglar pleases. By saving your own skin, you abandoned the rest of your family in their extreme hour of need.

This is what you are doing by continuing to support the PP knowing the harm they will do to the rest of us Seselwa Rasin.

Carlos the Jackal said...

All very entertaining stuff. Well done guys and gals.Your naivety knows no bounds. The ruling elite will never allow the likes of Ramadoss to get near power. Like Patrick X says he would/will be removed permanently from all spheres of influence should he ever make a serious move in that direction. The drivel spouted by some is almost akin to the SPPF Orwellian speak of the one party state. It would nearly make one long for that time when people kept their own counsel and spared us their elaborate fiction.
Speaking of the one party state does anyone here seriously believe Michel & Co. will relinquish power even if defeated in a democratic election? I think we can safely say 'NO'. The day that happens cue the next incarnation of our little Republic under the guise of a government of national unity (not unlike post coup) which will operate with the blessing of the IMF and the international community in return for certain concessions. I fear that the fad of multi-party democracy (not that it was ever taken seriously by SPPF) has run its course and they (SPPF) must be rubbing their hands in anticipation of a return to 'normality'.

Anonymous said...

Especially if the election is won by a useless, incompetent and disresepectful person like Ramkalawan or one like Gill who wants to expel every non-Seychelles born citizen.

I'm happy to see that there is someone else out there, i.e 'Carlos the Jackal' who has seen reality.

Neither Ramadoss or any Indian(Seselwa Rasin or not) will ever get to the highest level of power in Seychelles. Seselwa a fer sa fann kler, kwar mwan. Sorry to say this, but not even a black man however well educated he is will even have a chance. Why? Because deep inside we're not Rasinist, we're plain and simple racists.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

I reply To Carlos and X-

The Police sation in town has been broken into this week and numerous if not all office have been burglared.

According to the SBC, the thieves made a good run of the drugs, and other items.

The HQ is run by Naill Scully (Citizen of Ireland). The Irish Deputy Commissioner.

The Commissioner had to do a press release to cover the mess and embarrassment of first degree.

On this, it just does not get better for a case of incompetence.

If the Police cannot secure their own offices, how can they secure the Public?

Rene Nusse at Tax is on the loose. His latest venture, is to send tax officials to seamtresses that nurse children with down syndrome full time, to force them to tears to cough up Scr.2,500.00 per month in provisional tax payments. How low will Michel go?

Eden Island I estimate will give us over 1000 resident permits and new Fabrike's over the next 5 years. Not because we sold 1000 units, but rather about 100 units or less are sold to time sharing families and each family member gets residency.

I will handle that issue in the next article.

The plot to kill Ramadoss is shameful. I will bring it to the attention of the Inidan High Commission.After you use him, puff him up, now you want to eliminate the man? The criiminal mind runs deep in P.P.

Shame on you P.P. Shame on all of you.

After the B- (High Risk) Fitch rating, you will want to kill every Rasin Seychellois to increase our per capita income as a country and retain middle income country status as we now are destined to sink for the deep sea.

People of Seychelles, play close attention to what has been written in these comments.

Christopher Gill

Anonymous said...

Keep your hair on Chris,

Nobody is plotting to kill Ramadoss, but I can assure you that Ramadoss will dig his own grave the day he gets too much 'toupe' for the Seselwa and for his own kind. Trust me on that one and when that happens he'll get even more paranoid than Rene and you guys. You may bring the 'plot' to the attention of the Indian High comissioner, but h'll be able to do very little as Ramadoss is no longer an Indian citizen since India does not permit dual citizenship. Remember, Ramadoss is now a Seychellois. If however he should have to taste his own medicine, I say good riddance and well deserved. I am always happy to see foreignes work hard and make their fortune, but Ramadoss has just about back-stabbed every ally he could have and has made his way up through corruption and dosdgy deals with the elite who have used him as much as he has used them. Now he is at the top, thanks to them, and it's time to pay back , but knowing that greedy bastard, he'll be reluctant to 'pay tax' and if the PL decides to give him the boot then I'd say he only deserves it. In fact he deserves it as much as Ramkalawan deserves being on a leash for falling for temptations he sshouldn't have fallen for.

Police burgled eh? Interesting indeed and a nice reminder to our prezident about the state of the nation. Best of all it's ablow in the face of those professional Paddy so called policemen. Now who would do such a daring stunt? Not common crimnals I think....! Sounds rather like an inside job if you ask my common sense. So we can't trust the Irish, we can't trust the Rasin or the Fabrike. We can't trust the PL nor the opposition. Now who can we trust Chris?

Patrick X

Raymond@UniqueOffersSeychelles! said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rising Tide said...

Good show!Indeed everyday these missteps by the administration of James Michel serves to educate the citizens of Seychelles how best to vote at the next elections. We need to unite under a National Platform for Democracy, in a unison unmatched so that we can undo what has been done by the SPUP/SPPF/PP regime!

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Jackal:

We Rasin-ists agree with you. That the PP will not voluntarily relinquish power, even if they once more lose an election of genuine Rasin voters.

We agree with you that the PP Collaborators are racists like Patrick X and think that Seselwa Rasin of Indian ancestry or African ancestry have no right to be president of our country and will murder anyone of them who comes near to challenging their hold on power. We agree with you that the PP have provided the Fabrike with citizenship rights they do not intend to honor and will murder Fabrike like Ramados who wish to exercise these false rights the PP themselves claim are valid. We agree with you that the PP will use every trick in the book to keep the power they obtained by bringing foreigners into our country to murder Rasin. We agree with you that PP Collaborator tricks include dividing us Rasin between black, white, Indian etc even though we are one people - Seselwa Rasin. Parick X tells all of us of these facts. He speaks for the PP Collaborators and informs us of their mentality.

However, there is no justification for your cynicism. Patrick X and his PP Collaborator friends want you to lose heart so they can keep selling out our country to Fabrike and keep power indefinitely. When we Rasin become united to a substantial degree on the issue that our country belongs to Seselwa Rasin and not Fabrike, we will retake our country from the PP Collaborators. To do so we will demonstrate publicly to retake our country and establish our national dignity and willingly go to prison for it. If that does not work we will call general strikes. If that does not work we will have a revolution - a real revolution where we will take back our country and establish a system where we can have truly free and fair elections of Seselwa Rasin voters. But first we must do the political work necessary to inform our people of our position and of Rasin-ist ideology. Even by reading this column they are becoming more aware of Rasin-ism. In the effort to educate about Rasin-ism, people like Patrick X are invaluable. They show the clear demarcation line between PP Collaborationist ideology and Seselwa Rasin-ism. So do not lose heart, on the contrary,prepare to assist us in any way you can in the long and dangerous decades long mission ahead.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

Your comment is once more very revealing of PP motives and their mentality Mr. X.

First of all you mis-represent Christopher's position as wanting to deport "all foreigners". Rasin-ists advocate deporting only those Fabrike foreigners who decide to vote in our future elections. If they do not vote in our future elections they will not be deported. We do not want to deport all foregners unlike the PP Fabrike Collaborators who plan to kill "troublesome" foreigners you have turned into Fabrike as you have stated.

Fabrike have no right to vote in our elections and no right to formally participate in the political affairs of our country. We Seselwa Rasin-ists make that plain without any kind of deceit as you Collaborationist harbor towards your Fabrike friends.

For example, in your last comment you say that Ramados is a Seychellois but has the "toupe" or audacity to think he can be president of Seychelles so he should be murdered. In your mind, is there a particular kind of Seychellois who has the right to seek to lead his or her country? If Ramados is a true Seychellois as you advocate, why is it an expression of toupe for him to want to be president? If you genuinely believe your position, is that not his right? Perhaps you, like we Rasin-ists, you do not think Ramados is a real Seychellois and therefore is not entitled to be president of Seychelles. However you do not have the basic honesty necessary to simply say so? Or, perhaps you cannot say so because you will have to give up his Fabrike vote and others like him that keep you Fabrike Collaborationists in power?

Finally you complain that Ramados has not paid his "tax" or bribe to you Fabrike Collaborationists despite his financial sucess made possible by Ramados' former Fabrike Collaborationist allies. Do you really think Fabrike like Ramados will indefinitely continue to pay you Collabrotaionsists the tax or bribe that you expect and and have come to depend on?

The fact that Ramados feels strong enough to withhold his expected tax or bribe from you Fabrike Collaborationsists should tell you he feels strong enough to challenge your hold on political power. Moreover, there are many others who think like him too; that's why, as you pointed out, other Fabrike elected Ramados to be their leader in the Chamber of Commerce.

Even you Patrick X and other Fabrike Collaborators must see those connections and the danger that you and other Fabrike Collaborators have placed us Seselwa Rasin in of losing our country.

Anonymous said...

The thinking of Patrick X reminds me of the thoughts expressed to me by the Savy's and Adams in many many ways.

The arrogance towards Dr. Ramadoss is heavily laden with hate. To kill the guy that they built up themselves is serious.

I do not find the ideas promoted by Mr. Gill to be hate ideology. I too have read over and over the last 2 posts. Mr. Gill to be fair to him, as I understand is against selling passports.Which real Seychellois would be against that?

I support him on this and expect the opposition to take these ideas and put them to work to clean up this country.

We have had enough evil. As Sarah Rene said, the world today is unside down. Seychelles has gone under water upside down. Let's get together and get sort the mess out.

Annette

Anonymous said...

Is it so hard to understand that I am predicting Ramadoss' doom due the simple fact that he has reached his social status through corruption and will fall from it due to the same corruption?

The funny things about the Ramadoss' pf this world is that they are all willing to pay to reach certain goals, but sooner or later get greedy and want more. Ramadoss has reached this stage and thinks he is invincible, hence becoming a threat to the PL, the Savys, the Renes and the Adams so why is it so strange that they would not go to the most extreme to get rid of Ramadoss?

Bear in mind that we have had several Ramadoss' in our country, all Fabrikes according to Gill's definition, but most of these have kept a low profile and are left alone. Ramadoss on the other hand is getting too noisy and too big for his own botts and will sooner or later get kicked by a bigger boot. AFter all we all remember so well what happened to Radovan Krejcir after he tried to do a Ramadoss and had to run with his tails between his legs. Why do you think that the entire passport scandal was kept hushed to a whisper and the accused immigration officer never faced a single criminal charge for his action?

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

Your reasoning is astounding, and the lack of any kind of morality in your last comment is unconscionable, Mr. X. Your last comment exemplifies all that is wrong with the PP and the Collaborators who pull its strings such as Michel, Rene, the Savy's and the Adam's and yourself. There is absolutely no dignity, honesty or character or even any principles underpinning your stated positions and beliefs, except to stay in power and milk the country until there is nothing left to take.

You Collaborators believe in nothing except yourselves. Nothing is too low for you to do to keep power - even selling out your own people and murdering and exiling your former Fabrike friends is not too low. Take for instance in your last comment you shamelessly argue, with a straight face, and without hesitation that it is OK for Michel, Rene, the Savy's and the Adam's to kill Ramados because he has become too big for his "boots" and threaten you Fabrike Collaborators hold on power.

The first thought that comes to mind is whether you feel that way about any Seychellois who would challenge your Fabrike Collaborator's grip on power, or is that a feeling and position you reserve for Fabrike like Ramados only? Is a Seselwa Rasin of both African and Indian ancestry, like Chris or myself, to be murdered if we become too much of a danger to you Collaborationists' hold on power? Have we exceeded the "boots" you Collaborationists have fitted for us?

Your position is that Rene, Michel, Savy and Adam's, the Fabrike Collaborators, have the right to rule and have the right to murder anyone who threaten that right to rule our country. This is astounding, but what is more unbelievable is the arrogance and impunity with which you Fabrike Collaborators take that position.

Who decided Ramados is too big for his boots, you Fabrike Collaborators? What boots is he supposed to fit? Is he supposed to be a content Fabrike and just pay his bribes quietly and cast his votes for you Collaborators quietly? Are those the boots you made for him that he has exceeded?

While I am the first to state that Ramados is not a real Seychellois and is a Fabrike created by you Collaborators who has no rights to participate in the political affairs of our country, I will also be the first to defend his right not to be murdered, for any reason, by individuals who are protected by the Seychelles Government. Your advocacy of Ramados' murder because he threatens your hold on power is plainly and simply wrong.

Your ideas symbolize all that is wrong with the PP and it shows why they must go, if we are to have a decent country, where the rule of law is paramount. If Ramados cannot become president it should be stated clearly and plainly in our laws. He should not be led to believe he is a full Seychellois and when he exercises the rights of a Seychellois he is to be murdered or exiled.

Annette is right - it is time we cleaned up this mess you Collaborators have created. You Collaborators have had your day - now we Seselwa Rasin will have ours. You will be brought to book for what you have done and continue to do to betray and sell out "Seychelles Pour Seychellois".

Furthermore, there are simply too many of us for you Collaborators to murder. If you murder one of us, or ten of us, as you advocate for Ramados, another one or ten of of us will take his or her place, and lift up the fallen banner and continue the struggle until we achieve victory and bring you Collaborators to account for all your crimes. Dictators often seem invincible when they are wielding dictatorial power. But history has shown us time and time again that they will fall. And when they do, the retribution inflicted on them has been proportionate to the crimes they committed. So beware of the crimes you commit with impunity now, they will determine your sentence later - these are not my words only, but the lessons of history.

Anonymous said...

Francis,

I've never sid that the PL have done only right, far from it. And I've neither sid that I support their doings, merely that they as per today offer the better option for Seychelles, this included the bad.

Who's to decide who's boots Ramadoss should fit? Well, I think I am the rather tolerant one of us two when it comes to how far Ramadoss' boots should be. After all, you guys started with all this Fabrike talk and when I know say that Ramadoss will never make it far in plotics you all turn against me? So who's collaborating who here?

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

Perhaps you are not reading your own comments. Please take a moment to read them. Your arguments are begining to loose all sense and cohesion. There is no reason here to become unglued Patrick. No one will put a "bullet in your head" for what you write here. We want to read your viewpoint no matter how abhorrent they are to us - this is democracy and freedom of speech. We will respond not with bullets but with better ideas and arguments; so get a hold of yourself.

To recap: your Fabrike Collaborator position is that Ramados is a full fledged Seychellois, yet if he gets too much toupe or audacity to take his rights seriously, he should expect to be killed by Rene/Michel/Savy/Adam because he threatens their interests and their hold on power. And, according to you, as an Indian Seychellois Ramados, like a black Seychellois, should know better than to believe he can be president of Seychelles. These are your words and ideas Mr. X. Are you saying that I can trust you on this one too that this is in fact the PP position and not yours, since you say these positions represent PP faults and not yours?

While I do not know how far Ramados will get in politics, if he is a real Seychellois as you and other Collaborators have argued, it should be his right to get as far as he can or wants to in our politics - even if he does not pay his Collaborator tax or bribe as you complain. Am I incorrect in assuming that conclusion from your position?

On the other hand, we Seselwa Rasin-ists say Ramados is not a real Secyhelois and has no right to formally participate in our politics. Apart from that, his civil rights should be fully protected and he should certainly not be killed by our government officials.

A hypocritical position that gives Ramados full rights in name only without any intention of honoring them, cannot under any circumstances be defined as "tolerant" - it can only be described as a cynical deception inflicted on all Fabrike by you Collaborators. You promise him and other Fabrike the world and deliver instead a bullet to the head and exile if your Fabrike get "out of hand".

We Rasin-ists promise exactly what we will deliver - a good predictable, fair and reasonable business environment with full protections of civil and property rights, under the rule of law and under absolute inviolable Seselwa Rasin political control. The Fabrike need now worry what we intend - we have clearly said what we mean and mean what we say without deceptions.

Anonymous said...

Francis,

There is a difference between having the right to do something and getting full acceptance to do it. Take Ramkalawan for instance, a Rasin who has the right to become prezident, but simply cannot get accept from the people to do so. The same goes for Chris Gill who despite being a Replante has every right to become prezident, but so far is only prezident on STAR.

I'm simply saying that Ramadoss has not been playing clean(neither has Michel for that matter) and will therefore be affected by it. Michel on the other hand can get away with it as he is Rasin. So as I said before, Seselwa i rasis move and will never allow a 'malbar' to become prezident. I can also tell you that they will never allow Chris Gill to become prezident either as he is a 'Replante'. With that said I am not asking Gill to quit politics, but rather find the best and most efficient role in Seychelles politics. And as said before, it is not necessarily the prezident who is in lead. Remember that.

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

You now have backtracked on your previous position that Rene/Michel/Savy/Adam Collaborators are likely to put a bullet in Ramados's head as the preferred way to stop his challenge to their hold on political power. Instead, now you argue Ramados cannot become president because he will not obtain "acceptance" to be president. You reason that because he is in fact an Indian and not a genuine Seychellois he cannot get the necessary "acceptance" to achieve political power in our country. It is hard to keep up with your daily shifting positions Mr. X.

It's as if you are a blind man with something to protect and are searching aimlessly for the tools to protect what you have, rather than arguing on the basis of any firmly held principles. Be that as it may, I will nevertheless take each of our newly contrived positions on good faith, and respond to each of them - this is after all exactly what free speech and open debate is all about.

However, with your new arguments, you are just digging yourself a deeper hole Mr. X. Not only have you established yourself as deceitful and hypocritical, you now rest your arguments on racist grounds. So far Mr. X it is your position that a Seychellois of Indian ancestry or who is black ("no matter how educated") or who has lived overseas like Christopher, none of them, in your view, can be "accepted" as president. So what kind of Seychellois is qualified to be "accepted" to be president in your eyes Patrick X? What other kinds of Seychellois are excluded from your acceptable list - is a white Seychellois excluded? You have not mentioned that category of Seychellois and excluded them, so I assume that you fall into that classification. Is one of Chinese ancestry like Jimmy Mancham excluded? While I do not agree with many of Mr. Mancham's views, we all know that Mr. Mancham won several free and fair elections in Seychelles, before the implementation of the Rene/Michel dictatorship - fair is fair Mr. X, you must acknowledge his clean victories - a Seychellois of Chinese ancestry.

Now, on the issue of acceptance, who will do the accepting? You Patrick X? The Collaborators Rene/Michel/Adam/Savy? To be accepted as a president do you have to be controlled by the Rene/Savy/Adam Collaborators, like Michel is?

In short, your classifications are all racist nonsense and your narrow racist concepts of acceptance is equally silly and immature. If a Seselwa Rasin of Indian, African, Chinese or European ancestry, or any other ancestry, is well educated, capable and has the well being of us Seselwa Rasin at heart, and can convince us Rasin of this fact, I see no reason why he or she cannot be accepted by the majority of Rasin as President of our country. Rather than discourage a Seselwa Rasin of Indian or African ancestry from attempting to become president of our country we should be doing the opposite. We should encourage ALL interested Seselwa Rasin to strive to lead their country as its president if they can get elected by Seselwa Rasin in a clean, transparent and democratic way.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

More specifically, Christopher is a far more decent Seselwa Rasin than Michel. And based on what I have learned of your character in your comments, and knowing Christopher since birth, he is a far better and righteous man than you are Patrick X. He has never murdered anyone - unlike Michel, whom you support, and who is rumored to have murdered his own son and has been rumored to have participated in other political killings of Rasin to gain and keep power. Chris would not murder anyone or advocate it as you have Patrick X. He would defend Seselwa Rasin interests to his last breath. He would bring you Collaborators who are proven in a court of law, or tribunal, to have done tremendous damage to us Rasin to justice. He would guide the country in a mature deliberate fashion to economic prosperity. He would distribute the benefits of our country only to Rasin and not give Fabrike houses and social security payments while 25% of us Rasin are at or below the food poverty level - 25% of Rasin do not have enough to eat, but the PP sees fit to feed Fabrike for free and to give them free houses in return for their votes!! Chris would not give Fabrike tax free concessions while taxing a fisherman for his diesel and Yamaha motor which are necessary to him earn a decent living. And as a bonus, Chris is extremely well educated. So, I disagree with you. Christopher would be well accepted as President of our country by a substantial majority of us Seselwa Rasin.

We Seselwa Rasin-ists do not accept your efforts to divide us between replante, derasine, mazambik, malbar, or any other classification. This is a Collaboratonist strategy to divide us so you Collaborators can continue to betray, rape and pillage our country and Seselwa Rasin. We are a single people - Seselwa Rasin. And, any, and I mean any Seselwa Rasin whether Indian, "mazambik" as you put it, or otherwise, has the right to become president of our country and can be accepted as president of our country. The decision to accept any Rasin candidate is up to all Seselwa Rasin to make in a free and fair election - it is not up to you Patrick X or the Rene/Michel/Savy/Adam Collaborators to determine who is acceptable and who is not.

Finally, Ramados cannot become president not because he is not "accepted" by Collaborators for the job but because, as a Fabrike, he has no right to be president. What is interesting is that you are greatly offended even by the idea that this Fabrike, Ramados, may even try to become president, not that he will not be accepted if he tries, even while you argue that he is a genuine Seychellois.

But beware, Ramados is not the kind of person who is sitting around waiting for you Collaborators to accept him. He will not need your acceptance when he walks into State House behind the barrel of a gun, and marches you out of your offices to a firing squad or hangman's noose - mark my words; you have given him rights he expects to exercise, and now you have backed him into a corner, he will not quietly leave our country as your former Farike friend the arms dealer who stopped paying you your "tax" that you like to refer to as an example of your skills in handling errant Fabrike.

Anonymous said...

I will partially agree with X's point on the issue of racism which is the Seychellois psychic. However i tend to think that this is not fatal, in the sense that any Seychellois can aspire to become President. In Seychellois context we are too much interwoven, twined for the issue of race/colour/creed to be a determinant factor. I say that beacuse Ramkalawan a black man, anglican priest almost won the elections in 2006 and still believe that he would still have won with a minimum of work...that is another issue.

However it may be that white is still considered as better! That is due to our christian origin of pitting white/light v/s dark/evil. Probably if a white man was leading the Opposition (minus all the faux pas commited by Rmakalawan/SNP) things may have been different.

Anybody aspiring to challenge the SPPF/PL must have the following: be squeaky clean, have a party/political set up with structures in the district, an entourage which is intelligent, be democratic. The colour/race is only secondary to all these.

I believe that Ramkalawan/Gill or whoever wishes to do politics have something to learn from how Ramadoss won the elections of the SCCI. It was nothing short of a masterpiece, carefully calculated and implemented. Seselwa rasin was just knocked out. That election was probably the only democratically held and won election in the past 35 odd years!

Vox

Anonymous said...

Francis/Chris etc,

If you are so scared of Ramadoss becoming prezident I suggest you get off your arses and challenge him face to face. So far all I've seen you lot doing is campaigning from STAR and complaining about foreigners.

I must however correct you that Ramadoss has EVERY right to become prezident as he is officially as much Seselwa as someone else with a Seychelles passport, even one who has spent half his life abroad. So the only way to prevent him or any other Fabrike in becoming preziden is to give the people a better option. So far the only one doing so is the PL and they will continue to do so, especially if Ramadoss should consider trying his luck.

Besides, I never mentioned bullets, I only said that they would use all means to get rid of him. Nobody used bullets on Krejcir did they? Still he had to run. Besides, it's not always the ones at the top who give orders, there are plenty followers who conveniently do so. Remember Thomas Becket? As I said, it's not only the prez that leads.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

By the way Francis,

I believe acceptance is goven by the voters. They've proved that several times now by not accepting Ramkalawan or Mancham. Will they accept a Gill or would that also be a 'nespes Fabrike' in their eyes?

Patrick X

Carlos the Jackal said...

Delusional disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental illness that involves holding one or more non-bizarre delusions in the absence of any other significant psychopathology (signs or symptoms of mental illness).

Anonymous said...

Which type? Persecutory of Gradiose? The others don't match, but personally I'm putting a finger on Paranoid Personality Disorder. Fits like a well used glove.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

It's an American thing. In the 60s they were so afraid of communists that they extradited even their own celebrities, Charlie Chaplin being one of them. Surveillance, persecution and inprisonment was common. Today every Arab they arrest in Afghanistan is either shot or sent to a prison camp, even minors.

They're so obsessed by their freedom of speech that they mute all others' freedom of speech. And I thought Rene was paranoid.

It all reminds me of a show sent on US TV where a famous reporter questioned the doings of George W. Bush with regards to the Iraq War. A redneck in the public shouted at him at the top of his voice: 'Shut up, the prezident is doing it to secure your freedom of speech'.

It's a case of 'with us or against us' and as said earlier, an American thing.

Patrick X - La vey sa pake kouyon ki mon pe al gannyen ek bannla.

Anonymous said...

I could not help but smile at the 2above posts, in fact our Opposition is Seychelles have the habit of behaving the same if not worse than the SPPF/PL. I will give an example. The SPPF/PL of course dislike the press (free, opposition, political or any other form of press which they cannot control) but they went about trying to destroy the opposiing press by using means which were to say the least dubious, by putting a few cases for diffamation and allow the courts to do the rest. However Printec which was controlled by the SPPF/PL in some form or another still printed REGAR until they got their own press. The SPPF/PL could have killed REGAR by simply stopping its print. AND what did Ramkalawan/SNP do when they had a position of power over a political rival (the DP)? They stopped printing the Seychelles Weekly. I must say i must admire Volcere and the rest who continue to print the Weekly despite not having a print house, i understand that the Weekly sells well.

I cannot accuse Gill of the same mindset as Ramkalawan, he still allows X and the rest to continue voicing their opinion despite controlling this site. However some followers, may simply have erased X or anyone that disagrees. I must say for this i have the utmost respect even if i do not necessarily agree with Gill sometimes.

That is to say only democracy and freedom will drive Seychelles forwards, both SPPF/PL and SNP (DP is not yet in a postion of strengh) have shown that they do not belive in those core beliefs of a democratic society.

Patrick X has however said something which is interesting, he has asked Mr Gill that other than blogging in Seychelles he has yet to make a move. That may be strategic on the part of Mr Gill, but we all realise that Ramkalwan/SNPs are spent force, they will however seek to stick around for some time, obviously no one would one to lose the priviledges that comes with the post, but in doing so they keep the status quo. Is that good for Seychelles? Can Gill or anyone else fight against the combined propaganda machines of SPPF/PL and SNP, they are both known to play dirty!

Vox

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

I am not afraid of Ramados becoming President. I am afraid of any Fabrike you Collaborators have created becoming president. Now that you have created this mess with the Fabrike on the verge of taking over our country, you Collaborators want to take credit for sweeping the mess under the carpet. Then you want others to help you clean it up because things are getting too far out of hand for you Collaborators to handle.

Well, we Seselwa Rasin-ists will clean up your Fabrike mess and we will do it beyond these comments on Star. But we will clean up the entire Fabrike mess not just as it relates to your favorite Fabrike Ramados.

To anonymous who referenced Charlie Chaplin I have this to say. Your comment is barely comprehensible much less logical and that is after giving you much leeway at that. While every person has the freedom to speak, anyone else has the freedom to point out how that person's comment is nonsense, if it is in fact so. If it is not, then that will come out too, because you are free to defend your position.

Take for instance your statement that Charlie Chaplin was an American who was deported by the United States Government from his own country. This is simply false. I will not say you lied but it is obvious you make broad sweeping statements without knowing the true facts and with an obvious reckless disregard for the truth. Chaplin was a British subject and was deported from the United States after admitting having sex with a minor in a train rail-car. However, I do agree Mr. Chaplin was really deported because he was considered to have leftist friends and opinions and that was wrong, but, he certainly was not an American with any permanent rights to reside in the United States. So your facts are simply wrong. These kinds of mis-statements and mis-conceptions are found throughout your comment. But I will not waste time to go through each one here.

I will however address one more. I do agree that the United States has arrested far too many people in Afghanistan and elsewhere without sufficient evidence to substantiate their participation in terrorist activities. But you and I are not the only ones who believe that. President Obama does too, and ran partly on that platform and won a majority of American votes in a free and fair election partly from obtaining votes from Americans who believed that as well.

Freedom of speech means you can respond to me in anyway you please without any fear of retaliation except that nonsense will be countered by good sense. That too is freedom of speech. No one has the right to spout out a stream of incomprehensible babble and do so uncontested. Freedom of speech does not mean only Collaborators get to speak as you were taught by Rene/Michel. Everyone has the right to speak and the best ideas supported by true facts usually prevails.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

There is an old saying that a liar needs a good memory. You need to sharpen yours. You now say you never mentioned using bullets on Ramados but you certainly did so on February 12, 2010 in these comments. Here is what you wrote:

"As to Ramadoss I am not worried because no malbar of his calibre will ever get power in Seychelles, let alone keep it. Why? For one the PL would never allow that to happen as they would find a way to jam his machinery the saem way the did to Radovan Krejcir when he got too tiresome, Second of all he would not be safe from the army as there are many there who are loyal to Michel and wouldn't hesitate a secod to put a bullet in Ramadoss. Trust me on that one."

In psychiatric terms, which you and your fellow Collaborators seem so fond of referring to, to mask the weaknesses of your argument, someone who engages in persistent fibbing is usually referred to as a Pathological Liar.

sesewarasin@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

Fair enough Francis,

I take back the part about not mentioning bullets(good work there mate). But mind you, as said beofre, the Thomas Becket syndrome is more likely to remove Ramadoss than the top cats of the PL. But yes, Ramadoss will not last long and he'll know it the day he even enters politics. Now he is chairman of SCCI and the Medical Board, but he should have the sense to not bite more than he can chew. Then he too will join the Paranoia Clup of Seychelles.

Vox:
Gill has guts and means well and I believe taht he has the best intentions, but as a diplomat he is a huge failure and despite all these years abroad I dare say 'i en pe tro brit'. I know another fellow who also spent his childhood in USA and returned to Seychelles, this one a sworn Mancham follower who cannot see any other colour than blue. Not that it's an American thing, but those living abroad for so long and returning tend to think that they know far better than everyone else and for that they will never get acceptance from the people despite speaking a lot of truth and having good opinions about the state of the nation.

Wether or not anyone can challenge PL and Ramkalawan the answer is a clear YES. As to who will take the step is uncertain indeed and even if it was to happen now the timing could not be worse. If a new party would have been established it should have happened right after the last election and a well planned campaign could have utilized the financial crisis to promote itself and show the Rasins that they have a better option. SNP didn't use that against the PL(we all know why), Volcere sat on his arse pouting as usual but doing nothing but promised to make DP a serious party blablabla.

Gill on the other hand has done a good job criticising and pointing out the faults of the PL. No arguments there, but he lacks the finess and manners of a good and serious politcian that the people can respect and take seriously. If he could only stat behaving like an adult and addressing the PL by 'PL' and not PP in addition to rephrasing his articles to resemble something written by an adult maybe even the international press might take him seriously and look into the cases mentioned. Unfortunately he is immature and is not taken seriously enough. As a blogger on another site said(something in the order of): 'Gill is nbo threat to the PL as he is a gran pakonpran'. And until he ceases to be so, he will NEVER be able to challenge PL or SNP. Despite Michel's history one must say that he has manners, something other politicians could learn from.

Till then, we're stuck with the PL and sad to say, but I still see them as the better option, at least until someone can convince me otherwise.

Psatrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X has once more made reference to Saint Thomas Becket to express his opinion that individuals loyal to President Michel are likely murder Ramados, a Fabrike, if Ramados threatens Michel's hold on power.

Patrick X's reference to St. Becket is intended to disguise the fact that based on trustworthy information according to Patrick X, Michel can have Ramados murdered without stating it in a clearly expressed order, even though Michel's true intention is to murder Ramados. So I think we need to shed some light on who St. Thomas Becket was and how he was murdered for us to trully understand exactly what Patrick X is telling us about the President of Seychelles based on what Patrick X has urged us to accept is his reliable and presumably inside information.

St. Becket was a former close friend of England's King Henry II in about 1168. King Henry II made his friend St. Becket, Archbischop of Cantebury. However St. Becket's loyalty to his Church overtook his loyalty to his close friend Henry II which brought the two into conflict. In a rage King Henry is reputed to have said something like this: "What sluggards, what cowards have I brought up in my court, who care nothing for their allegiance to their lord. Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest." In other words King Henry II asked are all his knights such cowards that they will not kill St. Becket for him?

Inspired by this rant, and to curry the King's favor, 4 of Henry's knights then brazenly murdered St. Thomas Becket on the alter of his cathedral.

Since that murder, the "Becket Syndrome", as Patrick X, referes to it, means the giving of a subtle order to your subordinates to murder a troublesome political opponent. So, what Patrick X is saying is that President James Michel, President of Seychelles, is likely to give subtle signals to his subordinates to murder Ramados, and presumably ohter Fabrike, if Ramados or any other Fabrike dares to get involved in politics and to challenge Michel's hold on power.

Patrick X is making this statement to soften his previous statement that if Ramados or any other Fabrike challenges the PP for power they will be killed by the Seychelles army by a bullet in their heads.

This is the kind of man Patrick X supports.

seselwarasin@gmail.com

Leonard Francis GIll said...

Patrick x:

You have been caught in a brazen lie Mr. X. Now that you have withdrawn the lie, we participants and readers expect an apology from you for brazenly lying to us. You must do the right and decent thing and apologize to us for intentionally lying to us - we expect your apology in your next comment.

Now to the substance of your comment. You state that Rasin living abroad for long periods cannot get public support for their valid positions and ideas because they think they know better than those Rasin who have never lived abroad. (You give the impression Patrick X that you are not living abroad but living in Seychelles and are personally encountering this phenomena - another lie Patrick X?)

Secondly, while I cannot speak for the person you referenced in your comment, I can speak for Christopher and myself, both of whom have spent significant time abroad. Neither one of us think we know everything or that we even know better than anyone else. I for one think I know very little, perhaps even less than you know Patrick X. The more knowledge I acquire the less I feel I know. If anything, experience has taught me to keep an open mind at all times, even when I feel absolutely sure about something - always reserve a little healthy doubt. So I am always open to listening and to fairly evaluating any and all well reasoned honest counter arguments to any position that I take, or even to principles that I hold very dear.

So while you once again are trying to divide Seselwa Rasin into even one more subgroup, I say, that there is only one Seselwa Rasin. If those who have lived overseas do not know how to communicate effectively with their people, they will pay the price for that lack of skill, as they should. But like other Collaboraors your efforts are designed to divide Seselwa Rasin between Indians, "mazambik", replante, derasine, "nespes Fabrike", black Rasin, newly returned Seselwa but been overseas for a short time, newly returned Seselwa but been overseas for a long time, Rasin born in Seychelles, Rasin who have never left Seycheles and on and on and on and on and on so you Collaborators can divide and control us Rasin and continue to sell out our country to your Fabrike friends.

In the end though these are just manipulations and propaganda efforts of the PP Collaborators. We Rasin know we have differences but we also know we are bound together by a common ownership of our country, language and culture that makes us one indigenous people - Seselwa Rasin.

You have an interesting take on manners and diplomacy that emphasizes form over substance, which is not surprising. You prefer the false gentility and false manners of President James Michel who is rumored to have murdered his own son and rumored to have participated in other political killings, and who according to you, is plotting to murder Ramados and other Fabrike who may challenge his hold on power to the straightforward undiplomatic manner of Christopher Gill who is a decent, honest, hardworking family man.

I prefer someone who talks and acts straight with me, whether diplomatic or not, rather than a tea sipping "gentleman" who never gives you a straight answer or position and who meanwhile is torturing his political opponents in his bedroom - or rather, who has used the Becket Syndrome to have his subordinates do the torturing and murder for him in his bedroom while he sips tea in polite company in the living room - all while the dirty work of getting rid of his opponents goes on in the back room, without his "knowledge" of course, because that is the diplomatic way to do it with manners, no doubt.

Anonymous said...

Just mark my words Francis. I am not saying I support Michel or his doings, but I am telling you what I am positive will happen.

Besides, King Henry never gave the order to kill Becket, his knights did so thinking they would please their king. We have many such knights in Seychelles and we don't have to look further back to see them. Remember the last election where some PL loyalists went raving with axes and killed a supporter of the opposition? Could just have well been the other way round Francis.

Michel was also a hard working man before entering politics, so was Ramkalawan. Will Gill be different?

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

Just a little thought about Gill Christopher, no offence intended. What made Ramkalawan, Georges, Volcere, Mancham popular is that they are approachable and likable at sight. Once i sat observing Volcere with the taximen at the Taxi stand and it was a sight to be seen, how Volcere could talk to those people. I am told (am too young to have seen that) that Mancham had the same attitude and gangoo style to him. However i once observed Gill walking through the same taxi stand accompgnied by 2 foreigners and i can tell you that this familarity was absent. The same goes for Boulle that walks around Victoria like en gran Senyer gran blan. Sure they may attract some intelelectuals or people that may vote against the other parties but are they as individuals cut out for Seychelles politics? It is one thing to be able to write properly and something else to explain complex situations in simple terms, one person who does that extremely well is Bernard Georges unfortunately however he does not seem interested to being more than he is now! My point to Gill Chis is that should his intention be serious politics he must loosen and chill out, and that he should not rely on Boulle at all because Boulle is all about armchair gran blanc politics and would amount to nothing.

One last point, i have been reading for some time accusations from both Gills and a few other bloggers about Patrick X being an SPPF/PL agent ect... i must say that should that be true he (Patrick X) has made a bloody good job of making STAR about him because the majority of posts has just been that! I wish that X would be allowed his freedom of speech and we concentrate on essential. But then again i guess trying to make it about Patrick X is also part of freedom of expression. :)

Vox

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

You have missed one of the major points of the Becket Syndrome as you call it. That point is that King Henry II was a power hungry despot who created an environment around himself consisting of a culture of impunity that allowed his knights to believe their King would be pleased if they murdered "this troublesome priest", St. Becket, on the alter of his cathedral. If King Henry was an enlightened and righteous King, his knights could never have mis-interpreted his rage; they could not have concluded that the King wanted his Archbishop murdered under any circumstances. Also, there is a historical dispute whether King Henry really did not mean not to have St. Becket killed. Like the devious and deceitful man that King Henry II was, when he changed his mind about killing St. Becket or when the public outrage was becoming overwhelming, Henry attempted to shift the blame for the murder to his loyal knights. Instead of accepting responsibility for his actions he passed the full responsibility on to his knights who suffered much for their dastardly deed.

This is exactly what is happening in Seychelles today with the PP. So by referencing the Beckett Syndrome you have, in some sense, hit the nail on the head. The PP have created an atmosphere of impunity and of despotism so that their supporters feel they can ingratiate themselves or get on the good side of their rulers, if they wield an ax and butcher a Seselwa Rasin member of the opposition; or, perhaps Ramados in the future. By the way have these murderers been prosecuted and punished if found guilty?

So no Patrick X, it could not be the other way around with opposition members wielding an ax in a political murder of a PP member. The opposition does not promote and cultivate an atmosphere of violence and violent impunity. No one could misinterpret an angry outburst of a leader in the opposition as an invitation to murder members of the PP as PP members could interpret an angry outburst of a PP leader as an invitation to murder opposition members or Ramados and other Fabrike for that matter.

If there is to be a real revolution to restore our democratic rights and the rights of Seselwa Rasin over those of Fabrike to own and rule their country, this will be done in an atmosphere of distinct purpose and discipline, and only to the extent necessary to accomplish our clear narrow purpose - not by ax wielding mobs who want to curry personal favor with their bosses and believe they can do so by indiscriminate violence. After all we must be now what we would like to be in the future.

Finally, while I cannot speak for Michel, Christopher will remain hard working no matter what he does - this is his family culture and the expectations that we, his family, have had of him since birth, and it will remain so for the rest of his life, no matter what he does - this is what we all demand of each other. He will not let us down, and he will not let the country down.

Finally Patrick X where is your apology for lying to us. You need to be a stand up guy and do what is right to make things right and apologize.

Anonymous said...

The opposition does not promote violence? Now that's the joke of the decade Francis. Who was it Ramkalawan was violent to in assembly?

And you have the nerve to ask me to apoligize? For what? Having a different opinion than you guys?

I must however give you all credit for not censoring my posts here, that I mean from the bottom of my heart. Question is, are you leaving them because you don't want to practice censorhip or simply because you don't have a choice? Nevertheless I appreciate it.

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Vox:

Vox, what is clear to me and perhaps most other readers as well, is that Patrick X is the PP and he presents their positions and the positions of other Fabrike Collaborators like himself. So Patrick X is invaluable in establishing their point of view and which in turn allows us Seselwa Rasin-ists to make our point of view known, and for others like yourself to do so as well. In this free marketplace of ideas we can all make independent judgments about what is best for our country. So while we disagree with any kind of censorship as a basic principle, it would a practical mistake to censor anything Patrick X has to say or anyone else for that matter. Without people like Patrick X and the other contributors we end up with inferior ideas guiding our national development.

We are confident that our arguments are superior and these exchanges have proved this point. So we are not afraid to defend what we think and what we advocate in a free and open forum - this is the essence of freedom of speech. The same kind of tolerance for free expression cannot be said of the PP who institute all kinds of restrictions, such as massive radio license fees, to restrict Seselwa Rasin from airing their views freely in Seychelles because the PP would not be able to defend themselves in such a free and open forum. This allows the PP Collaborationists to govern our country with inferior positions and ideas - and we have all seen the results of that policy in one failed project after another and ultimately the selling out of our country to Fabrike.

With respect to Chris's affability compared to Volcer or Ramkalawan I will just say that whoever is chosen to lead our country must be more than a backslapping smiley politician. Our problems are too serious to be resolved by just good humor and pandering. But your point is also well taken that politics is politics. I am sure that Christopher has the skills to be a good politician as well as he has proved intellectually capable. He proved that in Bel Ombre where he was the first and only directly elected MNA after the official removal of the one party state and even after 30% of our people who mostly opposed Rene/Michel had been exiled. But your constructive criticisms on this point are well taken.

seselwarasin@gmail.com

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

While I am uncomfortable defending Ramkalawan you leave me little choice but to do so now.

You cannot compare Ramkalawan's personal outburst of anger with the history of the SPPF/PP's use of political violence over a 3 decade long stretch. The SPPF/PP have used violence in a systematic way to achieve political objectives. In fact Rene/Michel introduced political violence, backed up by guns and bullets, to Seychelles. They then brought in hundreds of foreign troops, including Tanzanians, into our country who dutifully murdered Rasin who simply wanted more liberty and who opposed their dictatorship - desecrating our sacred soil. Also, many people accept the fact that Rene/Michel murdered Gerard Horeau in London and numerous others - some after extensive bouts in hours long torture sessions. This is by no means an exhaustive list of the violent acts and statements made by Rene/Michel in pursuit of power and to keep power, that has created a climate of impunity and violence surrounding the SPPF/PP not unlike that created by Henry II, the man responsible for the "Becket Syndrome". There is nothing comparable to that history of political violence in the opposition.

Additionally, I am demanding your apology not because you disagree with me, but because you intentionally lied to me, and to the other participants and readers of this blog. This was profoundly rude for a person who invests as much as you profess in good manners. I would never ask you to apologize to me because you disagree with me - that is your absolute right and causes me absolutely no offense whatsoever. In fact I have enjoyed our exchanges.

However, you lied about never having advocated putting a bullet into your favorite Fabrike's head Mr. Ramados. You admitted you lied. You admitted you were caught red handed in lying about this serious matter. Now, after being caught lying and admitting the fact, you are not a man of sufficient dignity and stature to apologize for what you have admitted was a patent and obvious lie.

You should apologize to us and we demand it. If anyone else agrees you are welcome to say so.

Anonymous said...

Francis,

Quoting myself: "I take back the part about not mentioning bullets(good work there mate)"

What more do you want? I did mention it and took back saying that I didn't mention bullets, but apologize for it? You might as well wait till Hell freezes over as I see no reason to aploligze for saying the saem thing many think, but do not dare to say.

The more I read your replies the more I realize that you(a lot of you here on STAR)are no better than the SPPF/PL. The PL sues anyone who speaks the truth about them, you guys cannot sue as you do not know my ID, but I am sure that if I had come out publically there would have been a law-suit or three on me for somethings or other, most probably my critism of Chris Gill who many of you see as some half-God, the same way Rene pictured himself.

Vox is however right, this site is longer about STAR, it's about STAR vs Patrick X.

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

I reply to Patrick X And ALL Other Comments over the last 5 days.

I Thank you all for you comments. This site is not about Christopher Gill Patrick X Vox, or Proud Seychellois or anyone else.

This site is about Seychelles, ourbeloved country. Our beloved country is currently facing a dark era that will be with us after Michel and Rene are gone. They have signed off debts they created to our children.

We need to bring all capbale Seychellois onboard, to effect real change in Seychelles to help Seychelles get back on its feet and return the credibility to her that she deserves.That means returning respect to Seselwa Rasin in our country.We have had enough lip service. Today, Sheik Kalifa's construction workers release excrement from 700 non GOP workers into our drinking water. Do we need a better example where Michel will take SESELWA RASIN rights? Selling a plot for Scr. 1.00 and another for Scr. 500,000.00 is not enough insult to our dignity as a People?

The site is a step in the direction of change. Here with the team from Star we have shown that politicians must be able and capable to face debate and critic. Sometimes the attacks are harsh, but rebutal and the opportunity to defend your ideas is paramount in a real democratic society.

In presented ideas, for solutions, we sometimes see what is wrong with our ideas, hence we see what is wrong with our country. Allowing Fabrike's to have a free for all is a problem for us Seselwa Rasin. This is the root of a larger problem, of having a government in place that does not represent the will of the people. But a government that is in power that represents the will of fake people as much as 5000 in the Electoral roll. This must be recitified.

STAR challenges all politicians to be accountable. That includes me. I thank you Vox for your comments. The incident you referred to was the day I assisted burial ceremony for my Step Father Peter Gill. Walking from Church throught he taxi stand, I was escorting his sister and brother after the ceremony at St. Paul's to the car.

My next posting will inform you where we are today, really, under Michel. It will give you a good idea where we will be if we do not remove P.P. soon.


Christopher Gill

Carlos the Jackal said...

We may not need back slapping humorous politicians but to succeed in politics charisma of sorts is a prerequisite. No offence meant here Mr. Gill but you have about as much charisma as a breadfruit.

Anonymous said...

Reply to Carlos the Jackel

Thank you for your input regarding my relation to a breadfruit.

Coming from you, it is a compliment.

Now let's get a little substantive if you can.

Christopher Gill

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X;

You are playing the victim in a free speech debate in which you were caught red handed lying. What you said is that you never advocated putting a bullet in Ramados's head when you did in fact say that Michel's henchmen would do just that in a context advocating it.

You should get a hold of yourself and man up and apologize for the outright lie and we can move on to the substance of the debate.

There is no need to feel sorry for yourself and to pander to the readers for sympathy by playing the victim. No one will sue you and no one is threatening to sue you for the ideas you put forward. You can say anything you want in a spirit of respect and good faith without fear of suit or of censorship.

You can reach me at seselwarasin@gmail.com. I will give you a full general release for anything you have to say in these comments. I want you to feel completely free to write anything anytime you want without threat or fear of suit from me. I will respond with reason and argument to anything you have to say and not with suits. Moreover, I will agree not to reveal your identity anyone else except on your written consent. I will put that in the general release.

So this appeal to sympathy is not becoming of a mature adult in a free and open debate. But your feeling of being victimized still does not allow you to lie and get away with it by some bonhomie or good humored comment like "good work mate". That just will not do.

Your lie shows you do not respect yourself nor do you respect us. And the fact that you will not apologize for what you admit was a lie shows what you have to say is untrustworthy. If you apologize it shows character, courage and remorse. If you do not apologize for lying about putting a bullet into Ramados's head it means we cannot take anything you say at face value. What else have you and will you continue to lie about?

Additionally, this site is about developing the best ideas for the advancement of our country and Seselwa Rasin rights. If you present good points, or anyone else does so for that matter, you have seen that I have readily agreed with them. If what you say is nonsense I have readily said so. There is no room for hurt feelings in this sometimes rigorous environment where good ideas are brought up and must withstand the strictest scrutiny from some of the harshest critics around. This is the heat from the kitchen in which good ideas are created. This is how we find out what is best for our country and how best to proceed to fully protect Rasin interests.

Since you Patrick X have put forth most of the ideas under debate, you have received the most attention. If others did so, the attention in my comments would shift to the ideas others bring up. So there is no need to be narcissistic (another psychiatric term I thought would appeal to you) about the whole exercise Patrick X. Nothing here is about either of us or even Christopher. It is about Seselwa Rasin rights and protecting them.

So get up off the ground, dust yourself off, wipe away your tears and get back into the discussion with our ideas and thoughts, not with your appeals to sympathy and claims of victimization. And man up and apologize for lying or if you prefer, apologize for misleading us.

Anonymous said...

Reply To Carlos Jackel-

You sound so much like that Steve Jardin.

Why don't you use your own name.Are you scared of being victimized by the government of Seychelles, or these laptop -revolutionaies,as you refer to them?

Give a Seychellois a chance to run their own tax office, its their birth right, you Fabrike!

See u on the court Steve.

Lera Rosse

Anonymous said...

Francis:

No tears here! I can assure you that and my feet stand firmly on the ground. I did take back what I said about bullets so if that isn't good enough for you the all I can say is 'tough luck'. Youare sounding more and more like Ramkalawan who would not attend meetings with IMF because the invitation was not according to his requests. So take me as I am or refrain from commenting if it is so hard to accept my standpoint.

This duscussion started well, but has ended like a dog chasing its own tail and the more I read, the less faith I have in your side of the opposition. Come to think of it I believe I have over-estimated your political intelligence and can clearly see that none of you have a single chance of every making it in politics. And Francis, do you really think I'm stupid enouigh to e-mail you so you can track my IP adress and find out where in teh world I am?

Lera Rosse:
Yo accuse others of not coming out with your real name yet you hide behing a little pink rodent. I see that being rather coward of you. I fully understand anyone being anonymous, but an anonymous person asking others to give up themselves?

There is also an unwritten rule of ethic for blog sites and that is the rule that forbids the speculation of who is behind an alias. Accusiong others of actions is one thing, but accusing Carlos the Jackal of being Steve Jardin is breaking that golden rule. THe same goes to you others who have accused Patrick X of being Patrick Herminie and/or Patrick Pillay.

To that I will teach you a phrase you should all remember:

Assumptions are the mother of all cock-ups

Remember that

Patrick X

Carlos the Jackal said...

FYI Lera I'm not Steve Jardine but like Patrick X says it's really none of your business who I am or may be. I would say however that to associate me with such a person is sinful not unlike comparing Adonis to Hephaestus.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

I am not seeking your approval for anything I say or do. So it matters little to me if you think I can make it in politics - I have no intention of making it in politics. I am not a politician. I am a Rasin-ist. I do not engage in manipulations and propaganda as you do. I speak the truth and those who agree will join - those who do not are not my concern. Approval from someone like you with no honor is not something I consider is of any value at all.

I also cannot speak for Ramkalawan and his motives for attending or not attending a meeting with the IMF. But what I can speak to is the fact that you are an admitted liar and refuse to man up to the fact and apologize for lying to us. This means you have no honor and are a person whose words mean very little. On this point I will continue to comment - you will not be able to instruct me like the PP Collaborator that you are to stop commenting. On this blog we practice free speech.

Additionally, I have no interest in knowing who you are or where you are. You are not a person I would associate with or would like to know in any capacity. I offered to give you protection from suit since you stated that was a concern of yours. But, then again, you are an admitted liar without the honor to apologize for the lie. So your concern about being sued is as it now appears was simply contrived - just another Patrick X lie, no surprise there.

Finally you attack Lera Rose for guessing Jackal's identity. You, an admitted liar without honor, have little ground to challenge the honor of the action of others. Lera Rose is a picture of honor and dignity compared to your record.

Anonymous said...

Sorry but lot yor infos about the citizenship abroad are not correct ,from my country in Europe you can have the passport after 6 mounth of marriage if you are resident or 3 years if you live abroad,the way the immigration here deals with us is outrageous have a look before between the peolpe who gets the passport after only 3 mounths in Seychelles and they are not even married.Regards

Anonymous said...

Oh yes, I forgot. That filthy corrupted Indian isn't exactly 'Mr Clean' either is he now?

Patrick X

Anonymous said...

Francis,

How do you know that you don't already associate with me on a regularly basis?

Patrick X

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Patrick X:

From experience, I am very careful with whom I associate. Given your character, which evidences a lack of self respect, repect for other Rasin, and lack of honor (you believe you have a right to lie about critically important things with impunity and should not apologize for it even after you admit the lie) I am fairly confident I do not associate with you on any basis except for replying to your comments in this blog. And that is where it will remain.

I like to and make it a point to associate with people of different views and backgrounds to mine and who are smarter than me. I do not learn as much from people who agree with me and have a similar background as mine. That is why I enjoyed the discussions with you, and would have found you to potentially be a good friend even if we strongly disagree on many things - but I do not find any redeeming qualities in people who are shameless liars and therefore live wihout honor no matter how intelligent and capable they may be.

You are no doubt very intelligent with many good ideas but you have no honor, so I am confident we do and will not associate on any other level outside of this blog.

Anonymous said...

Francis, don't be so sure. In politics, yes even this kind, you can never know who.

Patrick X

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Chris...glad to see you are doing good for yourself...nice work as a Columnist.

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