Friday, April 1, 2011

Justice Karunakaran of the Supreme Court of Seychelles has slammed the case for MSR registration in a judgment on March 30, 2011 that turned Seychelles back to the One Party State.
Judge Karunnakaran
In attendance for MSR was Christopher Gill, leader, Jean Paul Isaac, Political Affairs Officer, Allen Comettant, and a few Ex SNP supporters who applauded when Gill called for a GENERAL BOYCOTT of Elections while being interviewed on SBC. Stay home he said, our passive absence will be the first step to remove the PL communists who are selling our country.
In attendance for the Registrar of Political Parties was Attorney General Ronny Govinden. Mr. Hendrick Gappy was absent.
Ronny Govinden
SBC was present and interviewed Gill after the decision. Mr. Gill said, the judgment was a gross travesty to democratic values enshrined in the Constitution of Seychelles. It is a massacre of Individual Rights. Under this decision, we must think according to what the STATE says, we can think. We must believe, what the STATE says we can believe. We must express, only what is approved by the STATE.
Seychelles under this judgment is for everyone in the World, and anyone can claim to be a Seychellois. Our next president can be a Taliban or a member of the Gaddafi clan sent into exile. They will all be permitted to participate in the politics in Seychelles, but Seychellois will be restricted. Mr. Gill said that he will continue to educate the people of Seychelles on the principles of “SESEL POU SESELWA”, which is the founding principle of the Republic, and must never be set aside. When we bury “SESEL POU SESELWA”, he said, we bury the future of the coming generations of our children, and their children.
Mr. Gill said the Judge made erroneous comments without basis, to infer that MSR is a racist organization. Gill highlighted that MSR profess to be superior to no race. We include all races, from Europeans, African decent, Indian decent, Chinese decent. In Seychelles, we are a melting pot of a unique people. 
MSR will consult counsel and move this case now to the Constitutional Court and possibly to the Court of Appeals to consider legality of the Political Parties Registration act itself.
What is clear in the judgment is that the learned Judge has little at best or no understanding, most likely, of Constitutional Law.
In the first instance, MSR Manifesto cannot be unconstitutional as it is not the STATE . Constitutional violation can be attributed only to the STATE and not to a private party.
Secondly, beliefs cannot be held to be crimes, as they are only ideas.
On the matter of incitement for revolution, Gill said the Learned Judge never questioned this issue. He had taken the term revolution to mean armed revolution when MSR was actually using the internet revolution to educate people on “Sesel Pou Seselwa”. In that context, we have facebook, twitter, blogs, You-tube as effective tools, Gill said.
Unless this Judgment is overturned, Justice Karunakaran has sent us back to the One Party State and democracy in Seychelles will remain static and not evolve to empower our people.


Anonymous said...

The antics of people like Karunakaran will actually backfire on Parti Lepep. These antics may well recruit people to MSR's cause.

Fabrike and Rasin are two unfortunate terms. I heard Govinden explain what these two terms mean on the radio. It's not what I have read.

Was the Attorney General deliberately lying on the radio or just pig ignorant ?

The "legal" arguments Karunakaran used against MSR effectively make SPUP/SPPF an outlaw, unconstitutional party between 1964 and 1993. If it is a victory for PL, it is a bittersweet victory. In trying to stop MSR, Karunakaran has had to ironically condemn PL's past. If Michel has been handed a victory, Rene has been roundly condemned. That's what happens when judicial decisions are based on devious and perverse reasoning.

Karunakaran would have us believe that political parties like UK's National Front and France's Front National are unconstitutional in UK and France and violate UN Charters. In the name of democracy, Govinden would have then banned. I would rather think that our judiciary is cockeyed.

Karunakaran's meaning of the word 'revolution' is a disgrace and out of touch, given what is going on in Arab countries. What's going to happen to our own Revolution Avenue, in the face of Karunakaran put-down of the word ?

It is a cheap decision. It shames all Seychellois, irrespective of political affiliation. The PL government should sack Karunakaran for bringing PL into disrepute and for spectacularly failing to come up with credible reasons to uphold the ban on MSR. They clearly need better judges to rationalise without losing face what was a political decision by Gappy. Karunakaran should hang his head in shame.

It would have been better to let Christopher Gill register his party and test his political support. These judicial machinations appall many Seychellois. They serve to remind us of a judiciary that is not only kept by the government but also too heavily staffed by foreign judges whose independence is questionable. They generate sympathy for MSR.

Anonymous said...

Pity Karunakaran. This case shows that he is out of his depth in the judiciary. He is also slow to pick up the changes since Rene was forced to dismantle the one-party state edifice and start multi-party politics. He is another foreign import who seems to display both incompetence and a desire to kowtow to his paymasters and citizenship giver. Perhaps he was not appointed for his competence when the SPPF appointed him -- that's not how they appoint judges.

A reform of the judiciary must include the sacking of judges whose pathetic judgements are overturned by the Court of Appeal.

As for the judiciary, as long as the likes of Karunakaran remain, it will be a case of one step forward and two steps backward. Could he have given a similar judgment in India and call Indian political parties racist ? I doubt it.

Karunakaran is a caricature straight out of George Orwell's 1984 -- doublethink and thoughtcrime etc etc.

Anonymous said...

No one for one moment thought that MSR would get a positive judgment from the Supreme court. Le Pep have made sure of that a while ago, they want to strangle it at birth, and quietly SNP wish the same. If Ramkalawan fails AGAIN at the next election, what is left, a one party state.

Anonymous said...

Karunakaran's job for the Parti Lepep should have been a very simple one -- find one credible reason not to register MSR. He failed and this is highly embarrassing for those who support PL and defend this judiciary. He came up with a litany of excuses.

The people of Seychelles should decide which political party they want to support, not judges. It sticks in the craw that a foreign judge should cast aside all pretence of judicial impartiality and tell us what political party we can or cannot support, 35 years after independence. If PL will not defend our independence, they should be kicked out.

Anonymous said...

The Supreme Court judges are incapable of deciding political cases fairly. It has always been like that. I do not think Karunakaran will care if his ruling is overturned by the Court of Appeal. As far as he is concerned, he has delivered a ruling in favour of the government and that's that. He does not seem willing to put at risk any personal favours he might need from the government for himself or his family, in the name of justice in a country that is not even his country. The whole system is rotten to the core and there is nothing to be gained by being an upright judge.

We must be nuts to tolerate a situation like this.

Anonymous said...

The ruling is nuts. It has been made by a non seychellois, who obtained his citizenship while sitting on the court, with GOP.

He has covered his personal position with PL but he has exposed that the country is not really democractic. He has brought great disrepute to the Courts, which only a higher court can clean up to save the face of courts and the image of Seychelles.

It is looking like a one party state with only a select opposition acceptable to the PL to participate. Naturally, they will not want to run against a real threat, but will prefer a dummy oppostion to run against.

I urge MSR people to pray, strengthen your resolve, take your case to the courts, but outsmart this idoits: FORM ANOTHER PARTY!

Anonymous said...

How decent is Karunakaran ? Given that he was dealing with the distinction between what MSR calls Seselwa Rasin and Fabrike, should he not have excused himself from the case owing to vested personal interests on account of his citizenship ? I believe a decent judge would have excused himself. But obviously not Karunakaran. Our judges' motives should be beyond reproach, like Caesar's wife.

The silver lining is that MSR got some priceless publicity on SBC. When was the last time an opposition leader and his cause got that much coverage on SBC, apart from party conferences ? I believe the SBC report was balanced, something quite remarkable in itself. Seychelles Nation is stubbornly ignoring the greatest constitutional debate for quite a while, displaying the sort of blind political loyalty that Colonel Gaddaffi would give an arm and a leg (his) for. In any case, I am sure SBC's powerpoint presentation of the judge's rantings went well above the head of the average Seychellois who tuned in on Thursday night. Court of Appeal judges based in Seychelles, on the other hand, must have been rolling on the floor with laughter.

It is fine for Karunakaran to quote freely and selectively from a constitution and international conventions that Parti Lepep have always ignored with boundless enthusiasm and it has never been pulled up by a Supreme Court lackey for its flagrant and multiple transgressions. But the facts just do not support the outcome of Karunakaran's short dalliance with these documents. It would not surprise me if he had never in his life seen a copy of these international conventions up to now. If Attorney General's office had a copy, that's by no means clear, Govinden must have spent ages dusting them off to be used in this case.

Egonda-Ntende was supposed to be the new broom that sweeps clean when he replaced Alleear 18 months ago as Chief Justice. There seems to be an awful lot of sweeping to do. There is no better place to start than Victoria Supreme Court No. 2 where Karunakaran is currently ensconced.

Anonymous said...

Bloody rubbish. Karunakaran and Govinden should be selling shoes at Lari Bazar as they are both useless and only working for their masters. Govinden reminds me of France Bonte, Albert Rene's old lawyer. "Stupid is as stupid does" said Forrest Gump. These idiots do not belong in a courtroom.

The people of Seychelles are watching the happenings in the Middle East. People Power is for real and if Karunakaran, Govinden and the other two idiots Gappy and James Michel cannot see the writing on the wall, they are simple fools who do not understand that CHANGE is on its way. And this time, no Seychellois army gun is going to save their skins. If it is a REVOLUTION that they want, then they will get one.

SNP and DP should both condemn this judgement. If they do not, then it serves them right to lose voters to a new party such as Gill's MSR. The people of Seychelles are FED UP. We need CHANGE and we need to rid ourselves of these SPPF-PL monsters once and for all.

Anonymous said...

Ask anyone who has been in front of this Judge where the case is against the state or its Parastatals and Karunakaran always judges in their favour! He is a croney through and through. But Mr Gill, it is but a battle lost, not THE WAR.

Anonymous said...

The result of the ruling should strengthen the cause to continue with the struggle to bring change in the Seychelles. It is too bad that SNP as the official opposition remains silent on the issue, but the time will come where there will be a shift in leadership and power. Do not be disaspointed, find the advantages to every obstacles and we shall prevail in the light of these challenges.

Anonymous said...

The result of the ruling should strengthen the cause to continue with the struggle to bring change in the Seychelles. It is too bad that SNP as the official opposition remains silent on the issue, but the time will come where there will be a shift in leadership and power. Do not be disapointed, find the advantages to every obstacle in our path, we shall prevail in the light of these challenges.

Anonymous said...

Do not be surprised with this outcome whenever Lepep has interest in any court case.These cases had appeared infront Karunakaran and Peirra guess what they had always delivered the verdict that was dished to them on the telephone. The statistics is staggering just to a research of these court cases. For Govinden his explaining of the obvious would not fool any intilligent Seychellois. You should be ashame of your title. Professional who used media to try and justified there lies and deceit should be replaced. Remember it was that same Govinden who went on television to justified why the government who had 8% shares in plantation club and ironically enough the shares were given to them by the owner of the hotel in order to give it to Arabs who that they could have their legal brothel in the Seychelles. Friends yesterday Mr Wiliam Haig the foreign secretary of Britain spoke lengthily of undemocratic government in the world. He said that the British government would push for democratic reform across the world. Remember that I am sure that Mr Gill will take his fight internationally and exposed the dictatorship in the Seychelles. Word of caution for Karunakarn whether you like it or not oneday you will have to go and live in india simply because you will not be able to live in Seychelles when lepep is gone. You will pack up voluntarily like a headless chicken and you will go and enjoy the sweat and blood of the Seychellois people that you have made to enjoy as a reward for your corrupt deeds.

A concern Seychellois

Anonymous said...

The Supreme Court judges are incapable of deciding political cases fairly. It has always been like that. I do not think Karunakaran will care if his ruling is overturned by the Court of Appeal. As far as he is concerned, he has delivered a ruling in favour of the government and that's that. He does not seem willing to put at risk any personal favours he might need from the government for himself or his family, in the name of justice in a country that is not even his country. The whole system is rotten to the core and there is nothing to be gained by being an upright judge.

We must be nuts to tolerate a situation like this.

Absolutely true.

Anonymous said...

MSR cannot be registered in case it does something unlawful after registration.

During the second world war, nationals of enemy countries (Germany. Japan) were locked up in case they helped the enemy.

Sounds like Karunakaran has declared the war is on. 'The War Is On' is another of Rene's rallying cries in freer days. The British should have banned SPUP rather than wait for Rene to commit a crime first.

I am only trying to make some sense of Karunakaran's decision, not ridicule him.

Anonymous said...

.A judgement must be done on facts not hypothesis.In the case of Japan and germany according to historians it was a pretexts in order to avoid them succeeded after the war due 'for instance in the case of Geramny ita was advance in fields be it technologies,military might etc and so on.for example do you know that it was the german who first invented jet turbine,jet fighters ,radar,balistic rockets, that have then allow both Russian and USA to become what they are today.If they flying to space today is because of the Geraman technology confiscated after the war plus scietists who were brought into those countries.
Michel the butcher will try to portrait MSR as Racist but do not listen to a half brain criminal words go and check the definition in a dictionary or history books .Michel is liar he has always been ,he invent lies than he believe in them himself thinking that becuase he does so we will automatic follow his words,that a sign of ignorance and madness to follow a criminal he will end by making you one to.

Check also in the history books the different between nazism and communism you will find out that their ideologies are more or less the same with the exception that communists have massacred more people than Nazists)over 60 millions and that are known cases which were encovered, probably the amount is much more higher cause aftwer over fifty years there are still missing who have never been accounted for.

Jeanne DArc

Anonymous said...

I am so embarrassed. Why even have him judge this case when the results effect him? Isn't there a rule against this??It's so bias of opinion!!! That is why we need more Seychellois judges!!!!

Basically, this goes to show us AGAIN that on the higher level of this country, foreigners have alot of control of our lives!!!

So we as a nation are not allowed to express our rights, because the government is above the constitution and they are NOT mature or professional. All smoke and mirrors.

This is wrong!!

Mr. Gill please pass this ruling to the Commonwealth and every other organisation under the sun to show the reality in Seychelles.

We need to boycott these elections and have a peaceful sit-in protest in town on that day.

sceptical said...

Do not give up! that is what they are trying to do..

Anonymous said...

YES there are rules to follow the first are those stipulated in our constitution and rules of law and it should be pointed out here that Kurunakan and other foreigne judges should not even be in our country and controlling our institution for it against our law.The other reason why we have such a comic judicial system is the fact that it is not independent ,in our country all persons named in high office are finger pick by Michel,ehether is for the CEO of Air Seychelles,Sepec,IDC,Banks you name it,such practices reflect communism not democratic practices.

You have probably heard Morgan our little endemic Monkey telling us that new rules must be ammended in regard to planning and construction to avoid a repetition of what happen at La Misere referring to "Khalifa's illegal place" ,the fact is that the provisions in the bookof law regarding planning and construction are straight forward and we donot neccesaarily need to past new laws.One can bring up a libary full of laws if you do not abide by them all your rules will be uselless,that is somethings tacit but Morgan with his half brain just seems not to understand that.He cannot figure out what it meant when the law says construction on coastal areas must be done 20 meteres from beaches and so on.If a minster cannot figure what 20 meters is what do you expect him to understand them.

Solutions to our problems -Get those traitors out now.

Sesel pou Seselwa!

Jeanne D'Arc

Anonymous said...

The irony is that while James Michel asks Seychellois to be tolerant of foreigners, an Indian judge like Karunakaran through design or incompetence has no hesitation in slapping down Seychellois and inflaming nationalistic tendencies more common in his homeland India than in Seychelles. If James Michel wants to check "xenophobia" he should rid the Supreme Court of incompetent, puny judges who are inflaming nationalism.

Karunakaran must not kid himself that he knows how to read the Seychelles Constitution. He does not. I disagree with this narrow, if not deliberately perverted, interpretation of our constitution.

Karunakaran must apply the law and the Constitution. He is not there to make laws or restrict constitutional rights, in order to please his political paymasters.

On the eve of a presidential election, we get a rude reminder that the levers of power in this country are still in the hands of foreigners. Is it any wonder that more people are now asking about MSR and what it stands for ? Proscribing MSR by puny, foreign judges will only inflame nationalism, never mind Karunakaran's war on our constitutional rights.

Anonymous said...

Calling on Seychellois to be tolerance toward foreigners was never a problem beucase Seychellois are tolerant by nature,we all know that, it seems Michel only does not know it.The problem Michel is not the people it of Pp illegal practices that includes illegally selling our patrimony to foreigners,selling our nationality to foreigners,allowing them to illegally block aseychellois access to their beaches,building in national reserves and on beaches and so on.There is no need to come and preach about tolerance or even call Sechellois racists when they defending what are theirs,it is natural and any nation will do the same beucase it their rights and duty.The solution to the porblem is simple as one,two,three namely ABIDE BY THE CONSTITUTION YOU SWORN OF TO RESPECT WHEN TAKING OFFICE,ABIDE BY THE RULE OF LAW OF THIS COUNTRY that regulates the comportment,the rights and duties of all single citizen of this country including the president.President in our country has power ,duty,right but also limitation of what he or she can do once you go above it you illegal.Michel,pp you criminals are the problem not the people.

A nation is base on rules of law Pp abide by them and stop complaining.


Jeanne D"arc

Anonymous said...

Karunakaran is a joke of a judge. In fact, he is more of an SPPF activist in the judiciary than a judge. Sometimes he rules in favour of the government, but is then not able to put together a legal case to support his decision. In rubbishing one of his decisions in favour of the government, the Court of Appeal warned against "judicial tyranny". His skills of interpreting the constitution are very poor. This is worrying because the Constitutional Court is made up of Supreme Court judges.

Gill must now take the case to the Court of Appeal -- embarrass Parti Lepep whether they are still there or not and gain more publicity. The Court of Appeal is more likely to protect constitutional freedoms than this Indian reject that SPPF should never have appointed in the first place.

Anonymous said...

Seychelles Nation finally reports on the case, with a one-sided account of Karunakaran's Dickensian judgment -- a perfect example of the unfair society that Karunakaran wants to impose on those born and bred in Seychelles. If Seychelles Nation is behaving like a state-controlled media, Karunakaran is behaving like a state-controlled judge.

But Seychelles Nation has done Karunakaran's a disservice in the eyes of honest, thinking Seychellois. It is clear that his judgment was the political ranting of a demagogue judge. Plenty of political preaching -- ironically the sort that Rene was famous for in the second republic while he consolidated the murderous one-party state. Little legal reasoning to show how he has applied the law and the constitution diligently.

Karunakaran may well like the status quo and fear constitutional political change. The status quo has allowed India's third-rate lawyers to become judges in Seychelles, while much better qualified Seychellois have been discriminated against persistently since 1977.

If Karunakaran wants to use his ill-fitting position on the Bench to preach his version of racial harmony, there is only one riposte for it. Charity, m'lord, begins at home.

Anonymous said...

Seychelles Nation is an outlet for James Michel to print whatever he wants Seycheollois to read. THis is called Commmunism. Where was coverage of the fire at Gill's house? It is clear that Nation and SBC are there to help Michel stay in power. Not only shoudl we boycott the elections but we should stop buying Nation and watching that shit SBC when news come on. Buy a Today newspaper which at least prints impartial news and then watch CNN instead.

Anonymous said...

What did we expect from a malbar judge who has been made a Seselwa. This is a crime in our own country.

Anonymous said...

Finally, the Indians have conquered not only England, but now Seychelles as well. An Indian national can now tell a Seychellois national that he cannot run for President in his own country. Is this a bloody James Michel joke or what?

Leonard Francis Gill said...

The Fabrike judge has done what he is supposed to do. Subjugate us Seselwa Rasin and prop up his Collaborator compatriots in the Pp.

Some Seselwa Rasin take exception to the use of the terms Fabrike and Rasin. But these terms accurately reflect the distinction between a genuine Seselwa Rasin and a Seselwa Fabrike created by the Pp Collaborators to establish a group of people to help them keep power and subjugate us Rasin and steal our patrimony. So what is offensive is what the Collaborators have done in creating these Fabrike, not how we have accurately described their crime. This Fabrike judge has in this respect fulfilled his role as a Fabrike, which is to keep his Collaborator friends in power and preserve what he and Collaborators have stolen from us Rasin.

We in the MSR held no illusions that this Fabrike judge would recognize Seselwa Rasin rights. But we are obligated to exhaust all peaceful means to achieve our inalienable rights before we begin any direct action. So we will continue on this path.

But what is clear here is not that an Indian Fabrike has been allowed to come to our country and tell us what democratic rights we can or cannot have, it is that a Fabrike has done so, whatever his nationality.

MSR has exposed the full indignity of a Fabrike in our own motherland subjugating us Rasin so he and his Collaborator friends can steal our patrimony.

Yes, I agree with many of you. This is intolerable. Now it is up to each of us Rasin to begin the mental preparation to take all means necessary to take our country back from the Fabrike and their Collaborator friends in the Pp and to bring them to justice for the crimes they have committed against their own people.

Anonymous said...

The term Fabrike- is not a race based term.Nor does it infer any orgin. It refers to someone, who is not Seychellois Rasin, that has obtained Seychellois Citizenship through dubious immigration loop holes like actually buying a passport, and/or obtaining citizenship under GOP/.

Sesel Pou Seselwa!

Anonymous said...

I guess it is what L F Gill wrote that Karunakaran pounced on to deny MSR's appeal. It was the excuse that Karunakaran was looking for. What L F Gill says is disagreeable and betrays the cause of Seychellois 'Rasin' and likely to end him in the clink, but does not make MSR itself illegal as a political party. Fight today's battle. Dont be a neo-Rene. I didn't like him and I will not like a copy-cat. 'Direct action' and 'all means necessary' are idle threats. Why make them, when they undermine MSR's cause fatally ?

Anonymous said...

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SEE YOU SOON frer demi kordon
Konper Soungoula

Christopher Gill said...

We believe that Soungoula is another fake profile of JF Ferrari, Secretary General of SNP.

Please be tolerant of his views. They may not be very intellectual, and may not contribute much to the debate,must by allowing him to say what he feels, allows the standard of Freedom of Expression to grow exponentially in Seychelles life.

It also serves as therapy for him, as he cannot seem to shed his infamous historical position as a coup plotter, and participant. Hence the occasional violent verbatum.

Let Freedom reign, and may God guide that all Seychellois may love Freedom!


Anonymous said...

The suggestion is that the word 'Fabrike' may be seen as derogatory. It is one thing for individuals to use such a term but not responsible political parties or governments to describe part of the population. Most countries have different classes of citizenship -- some implied, others like UAE explicitly stated -- but do not use derogatory terms to describe the minority.

I know that Rasin and Fabrike describe 2 classes of citizenship. Fabrike essentially means post 1977 immigrants ? It is not right to target all of them and it is not right to give them a derogatory label. It is the accompanying inflammatory tune that makes it difficult for people to understand what MSR means by Rasin and Fabrike. Until MSR clears away the fog that it itself is generating, its struggle for the political rights of Seselwa Rasin is doomed.

Christopher Gill said...

Seselwa Rasin- those people regardless of race, color or creed, who formed the Seychelles Nation on June 29th, 1976.

On that day, a Nation was created, and a distinctive people called "Seychellois "was recognized by the United Nations.

Since then what had happen?

The very people called "Seychellois", were murdered, killed, victimized, exiled to foriegn lands. To keep the country running, after loosing 10,000 Seychellois many of whom were our brightest most capable, Rene imported foreign labour and military from 1977-2011. Those loyal to Rene, beame citizens. Few investors, bought passports but many non residents, were also sold passports. These are Fabrikes. They are not Seychellois, by birth or proper naturalization process, nor have they been granted citizenship on humanitarian grounds.

PL needs the Fabrikes to stay in power, as they are loyal to PL.

Fabrikes as much as 5000 are on the voters list. Many even live overseas, and come to Seychelles to vote and are so permitted, because they are loyal to PL.

The entire process, disenfranchises Seychellois in their own homeland. The Judgment of the Supreme Court, only shows that effort, a little more.


Leonard Francis Gill said...

Derogatory Fabrike Above:

The term Fabrike is now considered derogatory because many, though not all, Fabrike are engaged in or are implicated in illegal activity and in activities to steal our patrimony and prop up the Pp Collaborator dictatorship. A word acquires derogatory connotations usually because of underlying illicit or improper behavior or actions associated with the group described by the derogatory term. Fabrike is now considered derogatory because of the actions of many Fabrike, not because of the implicit derogatory nature of the word Fabrike or anything we Rasin have done.

So it would be more productive to condemn the derogatory actions of those described by the word Fabrike then to assault the Rasin victims of some Fabrike just because we Rasin are accurately describing our Fabrike oppressors.

Though I must point out that MSR's Creed seeks to identify Fabrike who should be accepted as Rasin on humanitarian grounds. For these Fabrike all of us Rasin will know they are good human beings who are well integrated into and accepted by our community and are not tainted by the corruption sometimes associated with Fabrike like Krejcir, Ramadoss and now Karunakaran.

Anonymous said...

Fabrike does bring to mind ghastly images of the likes of Ramadoss and Karunakaran. But it goes further than that. Does it not ? It includes all immigrants with Seychellois passport since independence.

Fabrike implies artificial, unnatural. I am all for a whole dictionary of derogatory terms (one probably exists) to describe the likes of Ramadoss and Karunakaran. As someone who would be classed as a "Seselwa Rasin", I would not like to use the term to describe all those immigrants who have obtained citizenship fairly and squarely, because of its derogatory and negative connotation. Not to mention associating these people with the likes of Ramadoss.

I understand that my sister's French husband (hypothetical example -- if she had a French husband she would be in France) may be granted citizenship on humanitarian grounds. But it is not right to brand him as Fabrike officially. I am sure MSR can come up with less inflammatory terminology.

Anonymous said...

You should report this case to the right bodies like the UN and the EEC etc...
Any organisation should have the right to stand for elections. Its for the people to decide who they want to vote for and no one else. Its a serious case.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Anonymous Above:

You are right. Fabrike is used to denote all those citizens who have been granted Seselwa citizenship since independence. You are also right that there are many Fabrike who should be accepted as Rasin without distinction, and MSR's humanitarian waiver is designed to do just that. You are also right that the term is harsh.

It is not the word that makes it harsh. It is harsh because it describes the harsh evil actions and intentions of the Pp Collaborators in creating this class of people. We in the MSR are simply describing what the Pp Collaborators have done and are doing to their own people in one word - Fabrike.

There is still the question of whether criminal Fabrike can be described separately from law abiding Fabrike. This is the problem in coming up with a term that distinguishes good Fabrike from bad ones. The Pp Collaborators have so abused the system of naturalization that they have brought disrepute to the entire naturalization process which was intended as a humanitarian gesture towards those deserving foreigners. Many if not most Fabrike have bought their passports or passports have been given to them to help the Pp Collaborators to steal our patrimony. This immorality is so pervasive and systematic that it has shifted the onus to Fabrike themselves to establish that they are good law abiding citizens of our community, and as a result, there is no way to describe the occasional law abiding Fabrike to seperate them from the extensive list of bad ones.

The pervasive bad influence of many Fabrike can be seen in all facets of our society and is as a consequence of a systematic policy of the Pp Collaborators to steal the Rasin patrimony and perpetuate their dictatorship. For instance the Collaborators have used Fabrike to undermine our nascent democracy in numerous ways. Fabrike are implicated in murdering Rasin. They are implicated in breaking and entering into MSR's office and in engaging in other forms of political repression to suppress our democratic rights. Fabrike judges tell us what democratic rights we have and do not have in our own homeland in order to keep their Collaborator friends in power. The Pp have stacked our electoral roles with Fabrike so they can keep power without the consent of a majority of we Rasin. They have used Fabrike to launder their ill gotten wealth. The list goes on and on.

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Given the pervasive immorality by many Fabrike, a fine tuned description of those involved in illegality or impropriety is impossible. But I understand the sense of injustice that law abiding Fabrike have by being lumped together with the likes of Fabrike like Krejcir, Ramadoss, Karunakaran and Jeyasingh.

We in MSR have addressed that concern through the humanitarian waiver. The humanitarian waiver establishes an open transparent and democratic process by which law abiding Fabrike can be accepted into our community, thereby permanently lifting the stigma of illegality and immorality now associated with being a Fabrike.

Any injustice that may be inflicted on law abiding Fabrike in order to properly identify them and integrate them into our community is a small price to pay in order for us Rasin to preserve and defend our patrimony.

On a side note, while many Fabrike complain about being stigmatized they do not have sympathy for our plight. They do not see the gross injustices inflicted on us Rasin by the Pp Collaborators creating and using the Fabrike class. They usually say nothing about that. Why are Rasin concerns not as noteworthy as Farike concerns to the Fabrike - even the law abiding ones?

We in the MSR have acknowledged the need to incorporate law abiding Fabrike into our community, we, on the other hand, ask law abiding Fabrike to understand our plight as well and cooperate with us to weed out good Fabrike from the bad ones. Justice and good neighborliness is after all almost always a two way street.

Furthermore, it does not matter what we call Fabrike. We Rasin are now distrustful of most Fabrike and suspect them of illegality or of questionable backgrounds. We could call Fabrike Sweet Roses and this distrust and stigma will persist because of the actions and purposes of many Fabrike in our society.

The point should be to weed out the bad Fabrike and keep the good ones and integrate the law abiding Fabrike into our community without further stigma, rather than to quibble about what this group of individuals is called.

Anonymous said...

Reply to leonardo. Just throwing in names without any proof of how people became citizens just shows how racist your party is.
I cannot defend Ramadoss, krejcir or karanuran aa i do not know them but as an ex class mate of jeyasing i think it only fair to spell out some facts to you.
Marc came to seychelles at a very young age with his dad working at the airport. He did most of his schooling here. Actually has lived in seychelles longer than his nati e india. After pursuing his further studies at his own cr parents cost returned to work in Seychelles and was responsible for introducing card services to the seychellez banking syste. He is married to a seychelloise as is his sister Dollywho is married to well known seychellois architect Harry Tirant. After marrying he decided to apply for citizenship on the grounds of being married to a seychellois and having spent most of his life here.
Can you please explain now how that maks him a fabrike. Is it only because he disagreed with the msr creed. If it is then god pity all naturalised seychellois no matter how integrated in to seychellois communities. Your days are numbered if you speak against msr. Is that not dictatorship.

Anonymous said...

Pp is in total cofusion.They confused what we thesupporters of MSR and thousands of Seychellois understand as such to the own communists imagination.We deffereiciate foreigners married to seychellois then become seychellois according to law of our country or foreigners who live hwere for many years and legal naturalized according to our laws.The confusion of Pp is that it is cooking everything in the same pot and pretent not to know or defferenciate betwwen legally obtained naturalization and illegally obtained naturalization.Our constitution do not say or allow anybody whethere President or whoever to gift,sell our passports or nationality ot anybodynor does it give Pp the authority to gifted our patrimony to anybody.Those person to the likes of karunkan who in the first place should not even be controlling our institution becuase we are sovereign not a xcolony to Indai,EAU or others are in fact defending Pp dictatorship that give them a living which tehy would have never enjoyed in their own country,They are also defending there own illegal acquisition of our nationality illegal and think we Seychellois we accept that a handful of ofreigners come and decide in our place that is best for our people.Seychellois multi-culture are done much beofre we take independent ,and this process have given birth to what is called Seyxchellois .We are not building a new ethnic gruop to the utopia of Pp ?We will also not accept that Pp think it has an authortiy to modifies our society according to thier communists dreams.
All in all ,all those talking has to do with illegal practice of Pp not race and Karunkan has know lesson to give to seychellois because Indai is a country it which racism is a custom,he should rather go back to his ccountry and help his goverenment fighting racism among Indian.
Sesel pou Seselwa and it not an Indian who will change that.

Jeanne DÂrc

Anonymous said...

Pp is in total confusion.To clarify things.We the supporters of MSR have always make a distinction between foreigners for instance,married to Seychellois or foreigners who have live a long time in our country and have legaly applied and become Seychellois according to the law of this country and those to the likes of Ramadoss,Shiva,Karunkan who have been made Seychellois illegally.

We don ot need Pp to give us lesson of democracy,human rights ,race,modern economic practices,what a constitution is etc they just don ot know.Pp action has one oblective to impede MSR registration as party beucase pp knows it will be the party to expose their thirty-four years of crimes and defeat pp dictatorship.
in a word Pp rejection of MSR registration via its Fabrik Karrunakan is politically motivated by refusing Msr registration it allows Pp to survive politcally for another four years becuase paart form MSR tthere is no real oppostion in this country.

Jeanne DÂrc

Anonymous said...

Jeanne D'arc,

You are wrong . Jeyasingh his married to a seychellois and yet from day 1 has been labelled a fabrike by Gill just beacuse he stood up against MSR creed. Is that the seychelles we want . 1 where people are labelled just because they speak against MSR. Is that not the same as a dictatorship does. is that not what PP did between 1977 and 1990

Anonymous said...

It is up to Jeyasingh to claim what gives him credibility as a Seselwa Rasin. He must invokes his rights, as he sees fit. The burden is on him, as an immigrant, not on the MSR as a party to determine what Jeyasingh is or is not.

I recall well the tirade of Jeyasingh on the internet with Pauline Ferrari, the Vice Consul of Paris, and EU rep. for the SNP.

Jeyasingh lost it completely, and could not handle the debate, because he was intellectual reduced by Seselwa Rasins.

You never know where the next Einstein can come from.

Sesel Pou Seselwa!

Leonard Francis Gill said...

Anonymous Leonardo:

You take issue with my calling Jeyasingh a Fabrike stating he is a law abiding citizen.

I have personally challenged Mark on our Facebook page to disavow any involvement in money laundering activities by the Pp Collaborators while he worked at Nouvobank. In several instances he refused and failed to do so. Is that the actions of a law abiding citizen.

I have personally asked Jeyasingh to condemn the murder and torture of Rasin by the Collaborators just so they can keep power and fleece us of our patrimony. He has patently refused to do so.

Jeyasingh seems more concerned about Fabrike grievances than our Rasin grievances as are many Fabrike. What is it about us Rasin that our suffering means nothing while a Fabrike's like Jeyasing's means everything? Is that the behavior of a good citizen concerned with the well being of everyone besides Fabrike?

Secondly, if I throw out a name in error, why does that make MSR racist? What is it about the names I have "thrown out" that makes MSR racist? You just use the term racist to hide the fact that you have no position and no argument worth stating. If I have made an error show me how - with your arguments not your unsupported insults.

If MSR defends what belongs to us Seselwa Rasin is that makes us racist? Call us what you want. We will defend what is ours - Rasin. Seychelles is the Rasin homeland and is not for the Pp Collaborators to steal or sell to fill their own pockets or to give away to Fabrike.

Finally, you state that "your days are numbered if you speak against msr." What? How did you reach that conclusion? We'll defend the Rasin motherland whatever it takes. But if we in MSR have proved anything we have shown that anyone can speak their mind directly to anyone of us and we'll defend our ideas openly in a free debate. In fact we have vehemently defended the right of Fabrike like Jeyasingh to speak his mind freely while he appears to have created fake profiles and websites simply to confuse the argument and undermine the freedom of other participants in this and other forums.

Read this well - MSR wants a free and democratic homeland where we Rasin can change our government in free, fair and transparent elections. If we falter in that commitment every Seselwa Rasin has a duty to bring MSR to task or to challenge and defeat any, and I mean, any of its leaders who might take our liberty away and sell our patrimony.

Anonymous said...

1977 -990,

Well i donnot believe MSR criticizes others becuase they don ot agree with MSR,it is what MSR thinks and if Jeyasingh feels that he obtained our nationality according to law then defend himself with facts then the case will be close.Second MSR does accept criticism proof you on STAR defenidng your postion which is not allow in PP even within its own party.

To gahsty images a few post above,
Yes a foreigners married to A French with be naturalized but according to law the French law not bny illegally seling their passports nad nationality.Note that a foreigner marreis to a Seychellois is not an immigrant.As to immigrant law in France no immgrant under French are issued automaticaaly the Frech nationailty in fact the French has in recent years ammeded their immgration to make it more strict in order to fight the massive immigrant folw on the soil and it must be say also that many supposedly immgrants though they were accepted as legal immigrants on french soil ,decades after the present on French soil have been refused French nationaility-this entails many reasons ,it goes to criminal immigrants and so on and as in French and other European countires there is in place a politic decission to send them back ot their contry of orgin.There is no automatic naturalization in French and in any countries in this world.

Sesel Pou Seselwa!

Jeanne DÂrc

Anonymous said...


1) You distort reality and are unable to provide a balanced assessment of your opponents. A real aspiring leader balances the good with the bad and is not completely biased.

2) Two people make up your 'party.'What sort of party is that? One of them A PILOT who has not commented on why he is a LIAR and the other a FLOOR CROSSER who nobody likes. FACT.

3) No one has really really heard of MSR. As far as I can see it exists only online and now it would appear only on facebook because I can see nothing has been updated since April Fools Day!

4) CG was an embarrassment to every political party he was a part of and is very fortunate to have other family members that helped him even get involved in politics in the first place. For DP he won Bel Ombre...Any other Jack ass would have won this seat for DP too which was arguably the easiest seat and this catapulted him in to some rather erratic thinking!!

5) Parti Le Pep do not like you or have not heard of you. Snp do not like you or have not heard of you. NDP do not like you either, do not be fooled.

6)You continually create fake accounts to champion your case on your website. When visiting your facebook page one can only visibly see one other supporter apart from the pilot. That being Alain who actually looks like a much more decent bloke than you.

7) Your politcal opinion is driven by your animosity and past grievances with well established politicians that want nothing to do with you! Mancham, Ramkalawan and Michel have been fantastic leaders in there own right. What have you led???

8) Only an idiot thinks that limited Arab involvement will be bad for the future of Seychelles. It's not about patrimony. The economy was fucked and this guy is loaded. Do you see how it kind of makes sense to try and attract wealthy people when your 700 million dollars in debt. You are not really Seselwa anyway.

9) You are RACIST.

10) You posted a genuine event on your website for MSR folllowers to go to. No you though, no supporters, no one and then you don't even comment as to why.

11) Everyone thinks you are mad, this is a worrying concept. Apart from JP but he is stupid anyway.

12) You never listen to any advice and just assume it's all a collaboration agaisnt you. I can assure you it's not. I am neither completely happy with LE Pep or SNP BUT WOULD HELL RATHER THEM IN POWER THEN YOU!!!

Dennis Esparon

Anonymous said...

A small country, with big problems.
But still, it makes for an interesting study of how primitive politics in island states are affecting the economy of that state, and ultimately leading to its failure and ruin. Is International response necessary in light of possible civil unrest ?

Anonymous said...

Competely agree with you,however the interantional communitties some seem to be turning away from thier responsibilty example,we have seen European Union dishing money to a fake human rights body controlled by the very same despotic pp regime,we have seen IMF becoming bedfellows of Pp,we have seen some representatives of African organization being rushed to our shores nowthat election is close to tell us Pp is literally that pp is a democractic party under what democratic norms the question is open.And the most disturbing those people beingpaid and rushing to our shores to tell us old wives tales think that becuase they are from araod we will believe in their lies and nonsense they invented and i away we do not have a brain of our own to distinguish what is right and wrong.This the kinds of practices that work deep in the woods of the main African continent but in any way here in this country our people are intellectually advance and informnot to be entice by such absurdity.

sesel pou Seselwa`!

Jeanne DÂrc

Anonymous said...

We are not racsit!We want to stop criminel and mafia coming in our country
who are dealing with heroin and bring it all the way from Asia to kill our children that there can conquor afer the real Seselwa Rasin have desapear?

Some of those foreigners like Paskistani,Indians,Russians mafia etc,PP are playing a big rule in importing dangerous Drugs in Seychelles.
Why?there chasing million that there don,t have to sweat and move he ass to get money and there are getting there share.Its time to get some of those dangerous peoples out of our country who are working with PP with corruption.
But anway we have to this bastardo Michel&PP out first.

Leonard Francis Gill MSR Co-leader said...

We cannot be excessively hopeful or sentimental about the international community liberating us from Pp Collaborator oppression. This job must be done by us, Seselwa Rasin.

The international community cares little about our liberty and our patrimony. They care little about whether we are relegated to 3 class citizenship status in our own motherland.

Take Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. The international community cared less, for decades, that the people of these countries were oppressed by their rulers. The international community only took note and action when the individual people in those countries rose up against their oppressors to toss them out of power. The international community was embarrassed into action only when the dictators reacted with such casual and extensive brutality that it was an embarrassment to humanity to do nothing.

The same will be true for us Rasin in our motherland. When we, individually, rise up to take our country back from the Pp Collaborators and their Fabrike and foreign friends, they will react with such brutality against us that then the international community will intervene by withdrawing their support from the Collaborators.

So until we act, and the Collaborators react, the international community will remain silent. Therefore the responsibility to secure our liberty and our patrimony is with us Seselwa Rasin, each one of us - individually not with anyone else.

Sceptical said...

The international community.. the British, the French.. should have removed FAR right away when he toppled our government right after teh coup. WHY DID THEY NOT INTERVENE THEN? THAT IS MY QUESTION..
all those Original and current FAR supporters who caused our country so much grief, killings, have accumulated wealth.. for themselves.. illegally.. bamkrupted our country.. all of you are "GUILTY".. A lot of them were very intelligent people, with high education,, FAR, Ferrarri, Hodoul.. ST. Jorre.. ST. Ange..etc.. THEY are also guilty as they should have known better..without their support FAR would not have survived..Today some have changed sides or appear to have changed sides..

All those embassies in Seychelles knew what was going on..too so the international community did nothing..then as well..they
had their reasons..

Anonymous said...

I guess they did not intervene because at that time we had what was known as the Communist block namely USSR which was a kind of Big brother to those communist satellites like Seychelles ,Cuba and others which were protected,finance,armed from any Western intwervention.

Jeanne DÂrc

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A small country, with big problems. But still, it makes for an interesting study of how primitive politics in island states are affecting the economy of that state, and ultimately leading to its failure and ruin. Is International response necessary in light of possible civil unrest ?

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